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Hi Ilya. Welcome back and congratulations on the Data Analyst job. Just to comment on your paragraph above: NO. Seriously. I should send this paragraph to my Russian Lit friends from college (few are trading, by the way!) and see their response. I don't have much opinion on what is the optimal...

Truth is, if you start in Asia, mobility will be limited within Asia. If you have experience making markets in the fastest growing regions in the world, your manager would be nuts to move you back to NY/LDN. At least I wouldn't do it if I'm your manager -- competition for talent in Singapore and...

I'd say that among Princeton student, the majority seeks to obtain trading / risk-taking positions, and not necessarily quant jobs. Are people smart enough to become quants? Yes, I believe so. When you have valedictorians from Ecole Polytechnique and Tsinghua/Beida in your class, you know...

Placement rates are one thing, but ideally you'd also want to know the quality of the placements. I'd argue that placing 100% of your students in back office roles is less impressive than 80% placement in exclusively front-office positions. So, this sort of normalization should be kept in mind...

Getting paid to learn > Paying to learn

Right. Thanks for the answers. (They're quite telling, really.) To put it bluntly, I believe the major areas of growth in Asia will be corporate finance (i.e. traditional investment banking activities) and flow trading. Exotics will eventually catch up, but the current low transaction volumes...

People would be able to give better advice if you elaborate on: What are you doing currently in Singapore? What are you looking to do in another job? What specifically about the city that tires you down? What do you look for in a city? What specifically do you mean about not being challenged...

You guys would be surprised. There are convergence trends between traditional IBD roles and quants. Among others, I think Citi's Financial Strategies Group and J.P. Morgan's Capital Structure Advisory Services can be quite academic/technical. Check out the following job description, courtesy of...

I feel bad for the thread starter that the topic went off a ridiculous tangent. All this debate about minute details -- it reminds me sometimes why I want to bite off the heads of quants I've worked with. If I have to choose between a Chinese, Russian, American, or [insert country] quant --...

Most definitely that can be your goal, but to temper the argument: 5 year forecasts are rarely accurate. If anyone had told me that I'd be doing EM distressed investing, six years removed from my MFin education, when I was nicely tucked in Princeton -- I would've never believed it. But that's...

Ahh. I miss hanging out with my liberal arts friends.

Sad? Here, have a cookie.

Whatever you do, just don't say you're looking for a hedge fund internship at Carlyle.

I believe the expected reward in your relentless pursuit is not commensurate with the amount of time you need to invest -- even if it's just to gain the firm's (fleeting) attention. You should just focus on getting into a good college now, and then build upon that.

A recent Princeton grad ('10) joined Kepos over the summer. He is having a blast. (Read: they're hiring, I think).

I was at the New York Film Festival to watch the premiere of 'Inside Job', and was pleasantly surprised at the depth of the movie. The best part for me was not Wall Street related -- how people in academia is interrelated with the financial crisis (i.e. Mishkin's endorsement of Iceland)...

Apollo Group is getting the burn.

I can only say for Princeton -- to begin with, most students who get in displayed career-oriented goals. If, for whatever reason, that aim changed to academia track along the way, it is not discouraged but you don't have a specific support system for it either. You do have closer interaction...

I've been under the impression that Africa has been quite dormant for some time. Few days ago, I met with people from GETCO who are emphasizing growth in Asia -- they've been very aggressively hiring for their Singapore office.

Just for laughs: Goldman Sachs Has a Greater Responsibility Than You Can Possibly Fathom.

Feel free to PM me with specific questions about Princeton. Congratulations, most excellent offers.

As far as job search goes, Princeton recruiters know of the grade deflation policy, and some were even 'victims' of it when they were students there. At the very least, when you apply through Princeton's Career Services (which is the case for most jobs), your competition would be other Princeton...

Just.. make sure you perform a stellar job at Rutgers. To be honest, I have never seen anyone get accepted to top graduate programs in anything with your undergraduate marks. And please please please, don't write in your statement of purpose that the bad grades are attributed to the 'boring'...

Which just reinforces the point -- he does not speak Spanish.

Oh, like, wow dude. Let's work on your ego now, alright?

Seriously, if you start speaking GRE words in the workplace (or anywhere else), you'd sound like a f***ing tool. Bloody hell, actually try pulling that on any trading floor and see if they like it. Also, not all Americans are speak in a manner bigbadwolf described. I have no idea what type...

Dude, I don't want to be friends with someone who uses GRE words in his daily speech.

You probably know this, but I use MATLAB primarily as a computing tool, not necessarily a programming language. Put it differently being able to use a computational software does not make you a good programmer. If I were you, I'd try taking CS classes that are more on the software-development...

Google is your friend. I would also suggest reading autobiographies on the subject matter, (e.g. Emanuel Derman's My Life as a Quant)

iddqd -- gotta love the Doom reference.

Nice addition to the website Andy -- this will mitigate some information asymmetry among MFE program admissions, demystify the process somewhat, and hopefully reduce the overall level of stress and clutter-posts among prospective applicants come the next admissions cycle.

Overkill, in my opinion. Then again, whatever makes you feel prepared and comfortable for the test should be the rule of thumb here.

You know, business schools love people from the Army.

While there is ample historical data that can help us infer what an MFE grad can expect to earn out of graduation, I find that it's often tough to extrapolate that number to the years going forward. Sometimes, all it takes for you to rake in big numbers is just being in the hot group that's...

Out of curiosity, why would you say MSEMS is probably less worthy than the other programs. Obviously, we're not comparing apples to apples here, and that different career aspirations may lead to applying to different programs.. but I'd be interested if you can give a little bit of color on the...

MATLAB is available for Mac -- check with your school's software distribution center, I'm pretty sure any good university will let you install and run it on your computer, within the university confines. Not too sure if you insist on running Visual Studio.. but if you are, then an alternative...

I actually have a friend with AM Stats from Harvard who is attending Columbia MSFE now. A quick brush through the curriculum makes me feel that the program is really a Statistics degree, and while you might end up being very strongly trained in that area, I don't see some crucial aspects of...

It's not even fair to begin comparing the two programs. One is in Corporate Finance, and the other is in Financial Mathematics -- both roads leads to different exit opps. What do you want to do? P.S. I can't really help if your answer to that question is "I want to be as rich as I can. ASAP."

hahahaha.. trent's answer made my day. fantastic way to resurrect this thread from the dead! N.B. it makes for a good behavioral interview question.

Dude, stop bit**ing. It is not an easy time for anyone out there. You don't get to that corner office immediately out of college. I've never felt like my education entitled me to anything. You have to earn your dues, in any endeavors you choose. Rather than bitching about how your education...

vkaul is a PhD candidate at Georgia Tech.

Pen Maddy at UC Irvine has a paper titled 'How Applied Mathematics Became Pure'. The abstract is as follows: Might not answer your question directly, but I enjoyed the short read.

cstassen: This is slightly tangential, but are you dead set on becoming an MD at a large investment bank? Bright talents from investment banks get poached all the time into buyside firms, preferably with a better compensation structure. I feel that you should be taking that possibility into...

I heard research can be quite rewarding.

Most definitely you can. I did just that; in fact, my profile was quite similar to yours from GPA, scores and coursework standpoints. I did, however, have one crucial junior-year internship in the corporate finance division of a large investment bank.. after which I decided I'd like to move to...

Tough question. Stability of financial systems is an interesting subject to study, although it's nowhere presented as elegantly as mathematical finance equations. I think the biggest problem is how the large financial institutions are tightly joined at their hips -- systemic risk. The failure of...

Billie Jean is not my lover; she's just a girl who claims that I am the one. ...sorry guys, but I think he's pretty damn awesome. could care less with the adulation going for him; but when someone who makes good music passes away, it's a shame.

As a general rule, I love politically incorrect jokes. I'll be waiting eagerly for this movie to come out.

What? (Seriously, you gotta give us more stuff to work with.)

Yes, I do see your point. But a similar logic goes the other way around too. Suppose that you give two individuals equally incredible opportunities to succeed, but one is less 'alpha' than the other (in a sense that he/she is less likely to seize it to the fullest, be it by something...

From Wikipedia: It's kinda tough to pin down the exact attributes that makes someone to be qualified as 'alpha', since it encompasses many things: physical stature, choice of speech, mannerisms & body language, driven-ness. It's like that forceful aura that makes you do what your boss wants...

From my unfortunate foray to private equity, I'd say that there's no one 'best' academic prep if you want to break into investment banking. Beyond the basic finance and accounting, there isn't much knowledge-specific skillset (a la stochastic calculus in financial maths) that you need to get an...

Well, I'm no expert here, but have you considered not to patent it? I'd guess that in the case of patents, there will come a day when you have to make your intellectual property a public knowledge, at which time you'd lose any kind of competitive advantage you were trying to protect. Firms like...

Well, some really stuck-up schools (read: Yale, e.g.) sometimes makes it really hard for their students to apply for CPT. The argument runs somewhere along the lines of: 'What do you mean you want to accumulate real world experience?! That's not rigorous enough, not up to our ivory tower...

I am quite sure that Oxbridge, for instance, has strong mathematics department, too. And yes, being an international student myself, I understand your point about the American-centric mentality on anything. However, as far as quality of academic department goes, I'd offer that there is a strong...

You are so lost. The fact that Renaissance hired a lot of speech recognition specialists should've given it away. The definition of neuro-linguistic programming on wikipedia is so ridiculous that I won't even bother to paste it here. In poker parlance, you don't scare off a big fish by knocking...

Not Columbia nor Cornell. I think the two institutions I attended have exceptionally strong applied mathematics programs, at least among the Ivies. Good thing that you're at Cornell now; it's a good place to study as an undergrad. Ithaca can be a little bit of a bore for some people, but I loved...

Yes, they do use HMMs extensively. But unfortunately, NLP does not stand for non-linear programming. Did you ever try to dig up the article I quoted? The answer is right there, in front of your eyes. Come on now, I'm making it easy for you. Oh, and you say that a lot of quant shops use the...

No, no, no. And this was on the WSJ yesterday (please, tell me that you read the WSJ regularly? not doing so is a recipe for destruction, to say the least). Do the acronyms HMM or NLP ring any bells? Now I understand why do you deify Jim Simons: just like God, Jim Simons is incomprehensible in...

Ilya, do you even know what you're talking about? Your overzealousness towards 'advanced, higher-IQ techniques as applied to finance.. statistical and operations research techniques' is really annoying. Last time I checked with my buddies at two of the funds you mentioned, they completely trash...

const451, that's what she said! On a more serious note.. I was chatting actually with the Director of Corporate Relations, and it is a fact that they are cutting down on the class size for this year; primarily this is in response to the worsening job markets condition, although it is...

Alright. Seems like you know what you're doing; you have the necessary ingredients to create a good grad school application: enough math, enough CS, demonstrated interest in the financial industry, good GRE, good recommendations. I'm pretty sure that accordingly, you'd try to write a good...

No idea. Some programs might be harsher than others for prior programming knowledge. I had limited programming experience when I applied: about one semester of OOP in Java, and another semester in data structures + algorithms. Again, it's a holistic process. I know NYU, CMU, Princeton puts up...

I had admits from Columbia, Cornell, Chicago, CMU and Princeton directly out of undergraduate. My work experience were actually similar to yours: it wasn't too much related to quantitative finance (I did private equity), but I think it was enough to show promise that I can handle myself...

Can you be more precise with the courses you've taken? That'll help people to assess how far you've gotten relative to your fellow applicants. I'm actually more interested in your 'general game playing bot'. What did you do exactly?

I don't know, man. I think the admissions committee has it in their best interest to build a class that is as strong as possible. Further, I believe that once you have a class full of bright students and a well-structured program, the job placement record will follow accordingly. The concern...

Princeton's MFin claims to teach finance comprehensively -- this includes several subject that is viewed with slight disdain on QN (I think ;)): Corporate Finance, Accounting.. the 'soft' subjects, so to speak. Though to their benefit, the curriculum allows up to 12 electives courses that can be...

Classy point, BBW, very classy. I'm not well-learned in the ways of literature, unfortunately, so I don't have much to add to your point. Case in point: I've been meaning to finish Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged for the past 2 years.

What? 88% of the quants are self-taught? What am I doing in school now?!? I should be back home then, reading some Shreve on my own! On a more serious note: Fortunaire, do you mind telling us what do you think are the necessary education prerequisites to become a quant? On an even more serious...

Probably more than just a few. At a minimum, you'd want Linear Algebra, Analysis, Probability (calculus-based, or even measure-theoretic), Statistics.

That's a nicely designed website. I like the t-shirt, too.

I think MFin degrees are 'frowned upon' (for lack of a better word) because of the perceived weakness in mathematics rigor in comparison to their financial engineering program counterparts. To some extent, I think that's the case, but not always. For example, Princeton's MFin program can easily...

Oui. I think the biggest reason people get rejected from financial engineering programs is the lack of mathematical background to follow the course.

Want to tell us about your mathematics background?

Um, Vincent, when I first read your post about Northeastern's Math Dept. being #18 in the nation, I almost jumped out of my seat. A quick check at US News Graduate School rankings (I believe this is what you have used, yes?) showed not Northeastern at the #18 spot, but instead Northwestern...

I think a lot of people can relate to what goes on Asness' head these days :) On another note, anybody knows how AQR is doing these days? Almost interned there during my undergraduate days..

Here's a simple intro to structured finance: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1287363

I'm quite sure you understand what I mean :)

What about a course that introduces you to formal maths (i.e. proofs and the likes)? Real Analysis sounds like a good complement to the current schedule.

Hi Eric, Seems like you've really prepared for quantitative finance as a career -- that's quite a packed schedule! At any rate, I went to a private university in the Northeast (hint hint! I guess you'd still have a hard time figuring out which one.. just kidding, can't help it), and from my...

I think the math courses on paper sounds 'enough'. But, for instance, I cannot tell what does 'Applied Statistics for Business and Economics' entails.. We can't really give an opinion on how well a course prepares you if we don't know what it teaches and its degree of rigor. There's only so much...

What the f**k? I'm giving up on you man. Have fun BS-ing your way through life. So much for your engineering education. Take care, and have a nice day.

Ilya: First, congratulations on the summer gig. Here's hoping to a fruitful summer which you can then translate into a fantastic employment on Wall Street. Second, I don't think any of us here was under the illusion that you need to have an Ivy League degree to command a large company. If...

Thanks bigbadwolf -- I was about to try directing the debate towards where it began, but you summed it up better than I can. N.B. Ivy League is overrated. I hope I'm qualified enough to make that statement, since I attended two of them. My time in those institutions convinced me: what you do...

Let me address your specific questions: TFA applications this year reaches 35,000, a sizeable number, no? Why would you need an Ivy League degree? You don't. But it doesn't hurt to have one. Having a teacher that has gone to a great school inspires the students, much alike we are inspired by our...

Interesting reply, to say the least. As someone who attended two Ivies, allow me to offer you my thoughts: I find your 'pity' towards people who decided to do what they love (TFA, in our case) to be unwarranted at best. The fact that you feel 'pity' towards these people implies that you...

Well, since you seem to be so disinterested in addressing my questions to you regarding your imposing your career ideals on others -- I will respect your silence and drop the issue there.

'No not in my grand scheme of things. Think Brin, Gates, and if MfA does well, Simons. Someone whose name outlives them. That's what I mean.' I still don't get this. What do you mean? Are you saying that the existence of these very few people allow you to bash other's career choices? Are you...

I beg to differ.. Several things: 1. Many people do it because they truly enjoy teaching. I believe you are grossly generalizing when you assume they are all chasing 'respect and self-esteem'. Further, what do you mean 'statistic in the grand scheme of things'? Are we talking about your...