2011-2012 Quantnet Ranking of Financial Engineering (MFE) Programs

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Why is it so hard for you to believe it might be real? In fact, when I was applying last year, I would have preferred half of those schools to Baruch if the tuitions were all equal.

Now I know before Alex's post, my impression about students from Baruch is only partial...
Baruch was ranked 5th. How is that pushing the program? Man, I am glad I did an MSF instead of an MFE. I know people at all the main MSF programs and I have never encountered this type of vitriol. What Andy is doing is only increasing the exposure for everyone of you. The MSF and MFE are both in the shadow of the MBA and anything that gets the name and understanding to increase is a good thing.

All you Berkeley guys, take this advice. Go to your grad office and light a fire under their butts to get their info to Andy and do it soon. Class profiles are available online and considering that this is the ONLY ranking, it would behoove Berkeley to get as highly ranked as possible. Andy has told everyone what the ranking is comprised of and it isn't hard to get your stats up.
I only have read through a couple of pages in the middle but this is becoming quite disgusting.
The points that Baruch may or may not be weighed more favorable are credible given the Baruch presence on this sites (in ads, members, and Andy is an alum himself) but are simultaneously moot. Who cares about what the rankings say? You shouldn't care about rank, but rather only raw statistics.

Consider Tepper (I'm talking undergrad here) in Business week. It's ranked ~25 ish but has one of the top 3 starting salaries and a fairly low acceptance rate. Raw numbers are what matter.

It doesn't matter if you won the beauty pageant just suck it up and go on.
How is this disrespectful hahaha. If you want to move up in the only ranking out there you need to participate. What I find insulting is your ego and attitude that Berkeley is so high and mighty that they don't need to participate in a ranking. FYI, even if Baruch didn't exist Berkeley still would be only 5th. Might want to work on that because it seems like 19/22 programs took this seriously.
As another Baruch student, I think this post is totally uncalled for and reflects poorly on our program. The guy that you are referring to isn't even involved in this thread. He merely made a ranking of his personal preferences and exercised his right to free speech.

The entire attitude of Baruch students in this thread is probably really off-putting to outsiders. People have a right to question ranking methodologies or to share their personal opinions. A lot of the people posting questions about the methodologies (void of any personal attacks) have been ganged up on and censored. The ironic part is that as this thread has continued, it has only strengthened the dissenters' arguments of a Baruch bias on quantnet.

yes you are right.
Anthony - Do you really think University of California, Berkeley MFE needs to rely on a website for rankings ?? You have to be kidding me.
When I was looking into MFE programs a few years ago, I considered UCB MFE among other NYC-based programs since I work in NY. I remember seeing their website saying something about #1 program ranked.
Let me see if I can google it up.
EDIT: Yes, I was right. Found it here http://mfe.berkeley.edu/admissions/announcements.html


They used Global-Derivatives 2003 ranking. I think someone said it's a dead website?
The Haas School's Master's in Financial Engineering Program (MFE) ranked #1 among financial engineering and quantitative finance master's programs around the world, according to Global Derivatives, an information clearinghouse for quantitative finance topics.

I'm glad that I didn't need to apply to MFE programs to advance my career.
My coworkers went to CMU and told me about the MFE degree and GD website so I started looking up on it. They mentioned to me few years ago that GD is Berkeley's backyard.
I didn't know what they meant at first but it makes sene after your lurkign around on GD. The admins there are very pro-UCB and anti-Baruch from what I have read. The UCB MFE staff and their graduates hang out there as well.
They have stuff like students lounges or something like sections there for UCB, NYU and other programs. I think a few years ago, they start to censorr QN or something. Anytime you type the word quantnet there, they will turn into some nonsense words. I stop going there, and think like 2009 or something? I don't remember now.

I don't know, this whole thing just seems like too crazy for me. I find these name-callings big turnoff for me. It like picking only what favors you and discard the rest as joke. If people don't like something, just disagree and move on like gentlemen.
You should think of this ranking as of ranking of cars from different manufacturers; cars have different parameters and each potential owner is looking for specific set of characteristics that meet his or her needs. There is no single top car in all parameter categories - there is always a trade off. Each program has a certain competitive advantage and given preferences on parameters the ordering of elements would be different. Maybe the next ranking will be dynamic ;-) with adjustable weight parameters to allow everyone to find what they are looking for; a kind of a dynamic version of the program selector: http://www.quantnet.com/program-selector/


Quant Headhunter
Much of this thread demonstrates why my firm will never ever publish our blue list that evaluates programs.

The connection between QN and Baruch is well disclosed and the methdology is open, which I commend given that I have long concluded that the only way to explain MBA and similar rankings is to look at the commercial interests of the firm doing the ranking, rather than any sort of objectivity.

I do have issues with the QN rankings since I believe the value of a course is the value it adds, so actually the lower the grade of people it takes in for a given level of output the better the course.
The ratio of applicants to acceptances is as much a matter of marketing as quality, easily proven. If UCB took in 10% more poeple would that mean it was worse course ? would reducing the intake make it better ? I don't think so.

But that's my view and the joy of an open methodology is that you where it is strong and where it is weak.

I don't see any evidence of systematic bias or fudging the numbers to make Baruch look good, however anything which includes "confidential" data

One person points out the fact that Baruch ain't on the list of many "top programs" in other subjects. This is an important issue.
The fact is that finance programs do not correlate well with the university that hosts them because in many universities they are effectively separate from the rest of the institution, often the staff barely overlap and admissions are entirely disjoint and since they are run on a highly commercial basis the ability to pay to get in to a masters program ranks rather more highly than for other parts of the institution.
Nice find. So Berkeley doesn't need the "crappy" Quantnet ranking, but proudly promotes Global Derivatives.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm

Why waste a breath on going "hmmm"? Clearly you go with the one that ranks you higher. If Joe ranks me #10 and Mike ranks me #1 I'm going with Mike, sorry.
I do have issues with the QN rankings since I believe the value of a course is the value it adds, so actually the lower the grade of people it takes in for a given level of output the better the course.

This gets looked over so often. I really wish they'd report something like a ratio of previous salary to salary after graduation, or some other similar metric.
So if you really go the whole way and see how you feel at the prospect of vanishing forever, of all your efforts, and all your achievements and all your attainments turning into dust and nothingness… what is the feeling. What happens to you? It’s a curious thing. The most real state is the state of nothing. That’s what it’s going to all come to. And for some reason or other we’re supposed to find this depressing. But if somebody is going to argue that the basic reality is nothingness, where does all this come from? Obviously from nothingness. So cheer up you see, this is what is meant in Buddhist philosophy by saying “We are all basically nothing.” The essence of your mind, that’s how it is behind your eyes, is intrinsically pure. The pure doesn’t mean a non-dirty story state of mind, as it is apt to mean in the word purity, pure means clear-void.
By seeing that nothingness is the fundamental reality, and you see it’s yourreality, then how can anything contaminate you?
All the idea of your being scared and put out and worried and so on, it’s just nothing, it’s a dream. Because you’re really nothing. But this is most incredible nothing.
If you think of this nothingness as mere blankness, and you hold onto the idea of blankness, and are kind of grizzly about it, you haven’t understood it! Nothingness is really like the nothingness of space, which contains the whole universe! All the suns moons and stars, mountains and rivers, good men and bad men, animals and insects, the whole bit- all are contained and void. So out of this void comes everything, and you are it. So what I’m showing you is that all this hocus pocus about the fear of nothingness, is that, truly speaking, nothingness is what we want to talk about when we talk about the spiritual. Only, it’s all been ignored, it’s all been put down! You say, oh nothingness-heaven preserves us from that! Well, that’s where the secret lies.And obviously the secret always lies in the place you never think of looking for it.

Alan Watts.

Nothing really matters in the end, its all how you start in the beginning.
alex krause is the only sensible baruch person so far.

If I am the hiring manager, and I read this thread, I would have a negative impression about baruch and its graduate. Nothing personal, it doesn't mean the students or the program are bad, or the students won't get hired. It just means it's a negative impression, but you know sometimes the first impression is very important, e.g. interview.
How many of us actually went to more than one program? The fact is that people can only be the judge of programs they went to. The reason that we Baruch students are so protective of the program is that each negative comment is a personal attack on us all. We are close-knit and not competing against one another for "that one position at GS". Every time I see a negative comment about Baruch I immediately think of my classmates and the Baruch staff and realize how wrong that comment is.

I am a new student. I am extremely impressed by the quality of students in my cohort. By quality I don't mean brain-power. Every student accepted into any MFE program is automatically an 800Q 4.0GPA student (maybe slightly off). My entire cohort is friendly, cordial, and not at all protective over their own homeworks or C++ programs, etc.

If I had the chance to go to any MFE program in America given what I know now I would choose Baruch. Dan Stefanica is like a father to us all. The professor and TAs are awesome. Most importantly though I am extremely proud that I can call my fellow classmates my colleagues. I would not trade this for any starting salary. I know that my classmates and I will stay connected and help each other out throughout our professional careers.

Point is: I do not know that Baruch has the most well known professors, highest starting salary, etc. What I do know (without comparing to other schools) is that Baruch is a fine institution with an amazing staff and friendly students.

To anyone who has a negative "taste" of Baruch student from reading this thread? You should meet my classmates. They are friendly, nice, and always looking to help each other out.


Graduate Student
It seems like folks are just reading too much into the rankings. Read the ranking methodology and take what you like from the ranking... you could look at it as a guide or absolute truth on every count. At the end of the day, the #1 program on your personal ranking should be the program that is the best fit for you and will help achieve your goals...career and otherwise
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