COMPARE EPFL MFE vs Barcelona GSE MFin

Umnik · 2/24/12

Hi, everybody! Received offers from these two programs. While waiting for some other decisions, would like to ask several questions...

Which one is better from job perspective? If I have problems with securing a good job, which one will give better chances for PHD in Finance?

What can you say about the difference of living 2 years in Lausanne and 1 year in Barcelona?

KaiRu · 2/24/12

Umnik said:
Which one is better from job perspective?

Job perspective where ?

Umnik · 2/24/12

KaiRu said:
Job perspective where ?

I understand that both are not brilliant for US or Canada, so I am asking about Europe.

KaiRu · 2/24/12

Well, Europe is big. Are you EU or non-EU student after all ?

Umnik · 2/24/12

KaiRu said:
Well, Europe is big. Are you EU or non-EU student after all ?

non-EU

KaiRu · 2/24/12

Are you aware ?

http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/reps/eur/vgeo/ref_visinf/visgeo/stutif.html

Pupils and students who wish to attend a school or university in Switzerland for more than three months have to submit the following documents:
...
A written confirmation of the applicant that he/she will leave Switzerland after completion of the chosen course of study. (In free form; original plus 1 copy)

Umnik · 2/24/12

KaiRu said:
Are you aware ?

http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/reps/eur/vgeo/ref_visinf/visgeo/stutif.html

Pupils and students who wish to attend a school or university in Switzerland for more than three months have to submit the following documents:
...
A written confirmation of the applicant that he/she will leave Switzerland after completion of the chosen course of study. (In free form; original plus 1 copy)

Yaikes...

Andy Nguyen · 2/24/12

KaiRu said:
Are you aware ?

This should be in bold red letter on the front page of all programs website in Switzerland. I have a feeling a lot of people do not know this until the fact.
I didn't know students have to sign such paper. I guess they all hope to find a job in London or elsewhere by the time they graduate.

Umnik · 2/24/12

Andy Nguyen said:
This should be in bold red letter on the front page of all programs website in Switzerland. I have a feeling a lot of people do not know this until the fact.
I didn't know students have to sign such paper. I guess they all hope to find a job in London or elsewhere by the time they graduate.

Is it the same for continuing to PhD?

Andy Nguyen · 2/24/12

I would study as close as possible to where I want to work after school. Location is everything.
I admit that I don't know as much about European programs as I like.
If you real goal is to go for PhD, professional master programs like MFE are not really a wise choice.

Umnik · 2/25/12

Andy Nguyen said:
I would study as close as possible to where I want to work after school. Location is everything.
I admit that I don't know as much about European programs as I like.
If you real goal is to go for PhD, professional master programs like MFE are not really a wise choice.

What do you think - is it possible to find a job in London or NY (or maybe Paris of Netherlands?) after studying in Switzerland?

PHD is not my goal, but in case of a new wave of crisis etc. It can become an alternative...

robopool · 2/25/12

I think you guys are overreacting over the Swiss thing. What do you think they are going to do, issue a police report to come find you? This is not going to happen.

I was an international student who did the EFPL MFE in Switzerland. I am not Swiss. This was not at all an issue for me.

Legitimately:
You finish your internship in August, and the graduation date is in October. (The internship is mandatory. OR if you can't find anything you do your own independent project.) You have PLENTY of time to look for something. If you are smart, during your internship you will be applying everywhere. So you start applying for a permanent position that will start AFTER your internship. Even if you were lazy and applied only 1 month before your internship finishes at the end of August (ie. you started applying near the end of July), you have three months of applying until graduation in October to find a job.

Illegitimately:
Do you really think they count??! They don't. I stayed in Switzerland until December and didn't even announce my departure. Switzerland is in the middle of the EU. When you take a train to France you do not show your passport. You just buy a ticket at the SNCF train station and go. Nobody knows you went. If anything, you say "No I wasn't here in Switzerland, I had left, I just forgot to tell you guys of my departure". Anyways it will never get to that. I have friends who stayed in Switzerland well after graduation without any problem.

Umnik · 2/25/12

And concerning my initial question - which program would you recommend to choose?

robopool · 2/25/12

When you go on Stanford's Master in Mathematical Finance and see the List of Comparable Programs, EPFL is on there.

Barcelona is not.

Spain isn't known for its educational systems. Switzerland's EPFL is considered by Stanford University to be "comparable", and is a sister school to ETH Zurich, which is VERY well-respected in Europe.

KaiRu · 2/25/12

robopool said:
When you go on Stanford's Master in Mathematical Finance and see the List of Comparable Programs, EPFL is on there.

Barcelona is not.

Oklahoma State is there, Baruch, Imperial and Oxford are not. Just saying.

darth · 2/25/12

By what standards CGU and Bocconi are comparable to stanford's program...Is it some kind of proxy advertising?

Umnik · 2/26/12

robopool said:
When you go on Stanford's Master in Mathematical Finance and see the List of Comparable Programs, EPFL is on there.

Barcelona is not.

Spain isn't known for its educational systems. Switzerland's EPFL is considered by Stanford University to be "comparable", and is a sister school to ETH Zurich, which is VERY well-respected in Europe.

Well, this is list is not representative, BUT... EPFL is more often discussed here, on Wilmott etc.

In fact my current opinion is following: mind votes for EPFl, heart votes for living in Barcelona, and there is a war between mind and heart

KaiRu · 2/26/12

EPFL is more discussed on Wilmott and other sites because EPFL's Math and CS departments are among the best in the world and it should not be a surprise if students from these departments work in London in the same way as from other well respected Math departments. Overall in science and engineering EPFL is just a better brand name.

However, if you decide to compare tuition fee between your universities then bear in mind that Geneva is on the most expensive places in the world so low tuition fee can/will be compensated by your living costs - you'd better to do the math here.

On a side note, your heart lies to you

It's very hard to leave shores of lake Geneva after you stay there for some time.

Umnik · 2/26/12

KaiRu said:
EPFL can be more discussed on Wilmott and other sites because EPFL's Math and CS departments are among the best in the world and it should not be a surprise if students from these departments work in London in the same way as from other well respected Math departments. Overall in science and engineering EPFL is just a better brand name.

However, if you decide to compare tuition fee between your universities then bear in mind that Geneva is on the most expensive places in the world so low tuition fee can/will be compensated by your living costs - you'd better to do the math here.

On a side note, your heart lies to you It's very hard to leave shores of lake Geneva after you stay there for some time.

Concerning tuition and living:

Doing the maths, I get that 2 years in Switzerland cost the same as 1 year in NYU, London with expensive tuition. But I have got no offers from USA so far. I would prefer Columbia, Stanford or NYU, if accepted.

Of course, Barcelona is cheaper, especially with the tuition waiver. The question is (my parents are interested as they are the ones paying), does the EPFL brand cost additional 30000 euros?

robopool · 2/26/12

KaiRu: EPFL is not in Geneva. It is in Lausanne. You can get student housing with www.fmel.ch. It is about 500 francs per month.

Master-level education is not for screwing around and following "what the heart wants". You're not in Europe to vacation. You are here to study. If the fun factor has such large weight in your decision, your priorities are very much in the wrong place and I would not be surprised if you failed this MFE. It is not a joke and it is not a European vacation. It is a very serious commitment. As in any well-respected Master program, failing is VERY possible. In my class of 17, 11 failed. Only 6 of us graduated on time.

As for the money, I wrote this in the "MFE for rich kids" thread:

I did my MFE in Switzerland's Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne for 633 francs a semester, 4 semesters. Yes you read right. 633 x 4. It's a pretty well-respected school in Europe, I had found it through Stanford's List of Comparable Programs.

I lived for 455 francs a month for rent in the student housing dorms and 300 francs per month for food. I didn't eat lobster dinners. I didn't even eat out. I cooked myself and packed lunch. I bought the store brand. I applied aggressively for research assistant jobs and got one. That paid me 30 francs an hour, and I saved it. I lived on a student line of credit with 4.5% interest but I didn't have to use a lot of it.

In short, if you live simply, without all the perks that you can't afford, it is very possible to have an affordable MFE.

COMPARE EPFL MFE vs Barcelona GSE MFin

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