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Google stops censoring web for China

Google's decision comes after an impasse pitting the world's most powerful Internet company against the government of the world's most populous country. It's still not clear if Google's solution will resolve a standoff that began Jan. 12. That's when Google said it would no longer adhere to China's requirement that it omit some Internet results.
Google ends 4 years of censoring the Web for China - Yahoo! News

Epic battle for political, economical, ethical reasons?
 
I'm surprised to see so many comments by Chinese on blogs, relieved to bid Google a final goodbye. As, I believe Google has become a very integral part of the internet.

I can't find any political motivation behind the extreme step google has taken. Since, 380 million user Chinese industry is for sure too big an industry to be ignored for any big business conglomerate and that also for one of the most successful one. There must be some very strong compelling reasons for Google to reach such a point.

Though readily arguable, I don’t believe you can censor and suppress majority’s natural feelings for long and think you have eradicated unwanted sins from the society. It only helps for natural repressive forces to overturn the suppressive forces in the long run. I just can’t believe anyone can contain such a force apart from just letting it accumulate and amplify before this repression bursts into big picture. Everything in China is controlled and regulated very firmly. But I just believe only a light snap in the ruling power will do the trick to let the natural forces take over and cut loose in every sphere of society. Just my opinion!!!

Also, the Google’s assumingly final decision is coming at the same time Facebook announced its arrival in India. Surely, someone’s loss can prove to be blessing for others.
 
For Google, a Risky Ploy by Turning Its Back on China - NYTimes.com

The Chinese government moved on Tuesday to restrict access of mainland users to the Hong Kong site, the use of which Google had hoped would allow it to keep its pledge to end censorship while retaining a share of China’s fast-growing Internet search market.
But mainland Chinese users on Tuesday could not see uncensored Hong Kong content because government computers either disabled searches for objectionable content completely or blocked links to certain results.
Beijing officials were clearly angered by Google’s decision, which focused global attention on the government’s censorship policies, and there were signs of possible escalation in the dispute.
 
Yea, that's what i was saying.
You've got Baidu but what Google have got? Why would any company leave such a big market? The decision must either be temporary to see if some things work out, "or" else it must be painful for any organization to take such a step.

Nothing patriotic, I was just observing a business point of view!
 

alain

Older and Wiser
Google's revenue in China is around 150MM. That's drop in the bucket in comparison with ~6.67 billion worldwide.

Also, the money Google gets from chinese companies is mostly to post ads on the foreign sites (non chinese ones).

That market might be huge and growing but it means nothing to google now or the near future. The headache is not worth the hassle. Remember, it all started when Google got bombarded by hackers coming from China. Google got sort of fed up.

I think in the short term chinese people will lose more than google but time will tell.

---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------

Marko said:
Google = coward act. Wanna pull out just pull it out. They are dead now. What do they think about China...baby boomer? U.S is no power now. China rules.

China has Baidu. Who cares about google.

Do you care to explain what you mean by this non-sense?
 
you don't know what you were talking about.

I'm surprised to see so many comments by Chinese on blogs, relieved to bid Google a final goodbye. As, I believe Google has become a very integral part of the internet.

I can't find any political motivation behind the extreme step google has taken. Since, 380 million user Chinese industry is for sure too big an industry to be ignored for any big business conglomerate and that also for one of the most successful one. There must be some very strong compelling reasons for Google to reach such a point.

Though readily arguable, I don’t believe you can censor and suppress majority’s natural feelings for long and think you have eradicated unwanted sins from the society. It only helps for natural repressive forces to overturn the suppressive forces in the long run. I just can’t believe anyone can contain such a force apart from just letting it accumulate and amplify before this repression bursts into big picture. Everything in China is controlled and regulated very firmly. But I just believe only a light snap in the ruling power will do the trick to let the natural forces take over and cut loose in every sphere of society. Just my opinion!!!

Also, the Google’s assumingly final decision is coming at the same time Facebook announced its arrival in India. Surely, someone’s loss can prove to be blessing for others.
 
Alain, last I checked, Google's revenue was $21 billion. Unless you're talking quarterly.

Either way...Google is still one of the most phenomenally successful companies, period, and its databases probably make Baidu like puny in comparison.

It's the loss of the Chinese people IMO.
 
i am a Chinese and happy to see the hypocrite leaving. good thing!

btw, I think those who claim "loss of the Chinese" really funny. have you been to China? do you know "Chinese people"?

anyway, ignorance is bliss. fine.

Alain, last I checked, Google's revenue was $21 billion. Unless you're talking quarterly.

Either way...Google is still one of the most phenomenally successful companies, period, and its databases probably make Baidu like puny in comparison.

It's the loss of the Chinese people IMO.
 

atreides

Graduate Student
i am a Chinese and happy to see the hypocrite leaving. good thing!

btw, I think those who claim "loss of the Chinese" really funny. have you been to China? do you know "Chinese people"?

anyway, ignorance is bliss. fine.

Haven't been to China, but viewing from outside ..what do I see?

- A government that restricts the free flow of information to its citizens by blocking sites like youtube, facebook and twitter to list a few, filtering internet search result so users cannot access politically sensitive information.

Anyway, If the chinese people are okay with this, then thats their problem.
 

alain

Older and Wiser
Alain, last I checked, Google's revenue was $21 billion. Unless you're talking quarterly.

You are probably right since I was quoting an article I read over the weekend (I think it was BB but I couldn't find the link).

---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 PM ----------

i am a Chinese and happy to see the hypocrite leaving. good thing!

Why hypocrite? I would like to hear the opinion of somebody from the "inside". You are in China now, correct?

btw, I think those who claim "loss of the Chinese" really funny. have you been to China? do you know "Chinese people"?

anyway, ignorance is bliss. fine.

Unless China have something better than google for searching the web, it's their loss.

Oh, AFAIK google is not really pulling out, they just decided not to censor the searches as per the desired of the Chinese government.
 
Some piece of data
Google makes relatively little of its money in China now. Analysts have estimated the country accounts for $250 million to $600 million of its $24 billion in annual revenue.
But the pie is expected to get substantially bigger as China's economy expands and the country's Web audience increases beyond the roughly 350 million people online now.
Gartner Inc. analyst Whit Andrews said any financial pain Google suffers will be worth the respect the company wins for refusing to bow to a government's demands.
"Google now has irreproachable proof of its editorial objectivity," he said.

In China some Internet users mourned Google's exit, placing flowers and chocolates at the large Google sign in front of the company's offices in Beijing. But others noted that the situation could raise awareness about China's strict online censorship.

Zhang Shihe, a freelance Chinese journalist and well-known blogger, said coverage of Google's departure could spur Chinese to demand more free speech online and offline.

"The incident has angered and saddened a lot of netizens, and now they will understand what type of country we live in," said Zhang, who blogs under the name "Tiger Temple." "This is another win for freedom of expression."
China thwarts Google's detour around censorship - Yahoo! News
 
Marko said:
I think freedom of speech and freedom of news have a price nowadays. If the news that can affect the stability of China, I reckon China Government has the responsibility to filter them.

I definitely agree. Freedom of speech in China with their 1.3 billion people is chaos. I am actually impressed at the job the government has done over the past two decades in terms of uniting the country after a series of disputes during the 1900s.

I remember when I interned in China last summer, how I hated the fact that youtube and facebook were blocked. But Google really crossed the line. It's a classic example of a corporation entering a foreign market without fully understanding the corporate environment. China is a country that values pride and respect. We can see this from the effort they put into holding the 2008 Olympics. The government told Google to follow their rules, so Google can't just say no and expect the government to yield. It's a slap in the face. And China has had enough of this type of "slap in the face by foreigners" in the nation's history.

I think this is something that us Americans just don't understand. We can't just go into their place and tell them to do things our way.
 
I definitely agree. Freedom of speech in China with their 1.3 billion people is chaos. I am actually impressed at the job the government has done over the past two decades in terms of uniting the country after a series of disputes during the 1900s.

I remember when I interned in China last summer, how I hated the fact that youtube and facebook were blocked. But Google really crossed the line. It's a classic example of a corporation entering a foreign market without fully understanding the corporate environment. China is a country that values pride and respect. We can see this from the effort they put into holding the 2008 Olympics. The government told Google to follow their rules, so Google can't just say no and expect the government to yield. It's a slap in the face. And China has had enough of this type of "slap in the face by foreigners" in the nation's history.

I think this is something that us Americans just don't understand. We can't just go into their place and tell them to do things our way.

Average American doesn't care about information censorship in China. Whatever system works for them is fine.

Google withdraw from China will not affect their immediate balance, however it might be a lost opportunity. The market share was increasing and the overall Internet market is growing in China. So those $150 million could become $1 billion in a couple of years.

In the end, going back to the average American, they don't care about Google's wealth either. They prefer it as a search engine and that is all so there is no bias.

I agree with Alain and others that in the long run, Chinese Internet users will lose a bit of a basic human right: access to public information. Just another opinion ...
 
You are probably right since I was quoting an article I read over the weekend (I think it was BB but I couldn't find the link).

---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 PM ----------



Why hypocrite? I would like to hear the opinion of somebody from the "inside". You are in China now, correct?



Unless China have something better than google for searching the web, it's their loss.

Oh, AFAIK google is not really pulling out, they just decided not to censor the searches as per the desired of the Chinese government.

incorrect. i am living in the NYC.

frankly, i don't give a damn if Google says it is quitting because it is incompetent in racing against Baidu.com, our local search engine. guess what, Google doesn't understand Chinese, a more elaborate language. Worse, Google, undoubtedly the best internet company in the western world, can't accept the fact that it is simply INCOMPETENT in China's internet market. thus it chose to claim the high ground, blaming the censorship of Chinese government. nobody likes censorship, but not just Chinese government has censorship, many European countries also have, and even the U.S. has (to a much less extent).

as a matter of fact, Google understood well about Chinese government's censorship when entering China a few years ago. interestingly, why didn't Google say "you know what? i hate censorship, i must keep my results uncensored, and I'm not gonna do any business in this damn country" at the time -- because BUSINESS IS BUSINESS. Google wanted to grab market share, to dominate (like it did in western world) the emerging market using its unrivaled technology, which i like very much, btw.

i am not saying Google is poor in searching Chinese phrases, but it is not as good as Baidu. Google returns more results, but less relevant when you enter a simple Chinese word, and even some funny results when searching a bit complicated phrases such as classic Chinese or some culture things. Is that because Baidu has better technology than Google? No, honestly i don't think so. i think Google is the best in offering something revolutionary, something technically innovative, bar none. But Google's problem is it does NOT REALLY understand our language, and NOT WILLING to learn. therefore being hypocritical to raise media's attention on censorship instead of its incompetence is the best door to exit. Kudos to you, LOSER!

anyway,we Chinese use Chinese language. Whether Google is the best searching tool in the English-speaking world (or maybe the whole western world) is simply irrelevant to us. anyone like you or anybody else who knows nothing behind the scene while claims so confidently "Chinese people's loss" is just funny. ^-^
 
Some piece of data
Gartner Inc. analyst Whit Andrews said any financial pain Google suffers will be worth the respect the company wins for refusing to bow to a government's demands.
"Google now has irreproachable proof of its editorial objectivity," he said.

In China some Internet users mourned Google's exit, placing flowers and chocolates at the large Google sign in front of the company's offices in Beijing. But others noted that the situation could raise awareness about China's strict online censorship.

Zhang Shihe, a freelance Chinese journalist and well-known blogger, said coverage of Google's departure could spur Chinese to demand more free speech online and offline.

"The incident has angered and saddened a lot of netizens, and now they will understand what type of country we live in," said Zhang, who blogs under the name "Tiger Temple." "This is another win for freedom of expression."
China thwarts Google's detour around censorship - Yahoo! News

OMG, "a well-known blogger", anyone who loudly subscribes to the western media hype (and might know some English so as to share his "view") could be a "well-known blogger", even funnier!

there are so many Chinese students in this forum, why don't you ask them if this guy is really "WELL-KNOWN"?

interestingly why nobody reported that there are far more Chinese netizens being angered by Google's hypocrisy? you should learn FNC, at least its slogan, "Fair and Balanced", ^o^
 

alain

Older and Wiser
incorrect. i am living in the NYC.
How long have you being out of China? Your opinion might not carry as much weight just because of this.
frankly, i don't give a damn if Google says it is quitting because it is incompetent in racing against Baidu.com, our local search engine. guess what, Google doesn't understand Chinese, a more elaborate language. Worse, Google, undoubtedly the best internet company in the western world, can't accept the fact that it is simply INCOMPETENT in China's internet market. thus it chose to claim the high ground, blaming the censorship of Chinese government. nobody likes censorship, but not just Chinese government has censorship, many European countries also have, and even the U.S. has (to a much less extent). .
Again, Gogle is not pulling out. They just decided not to censor the searches, plain and simple. This is sort of a cat and mouse game.

BTW, you keep avoiding the topic of the hack attack originated in China against Google which is the crux of the problem and why they decided to uncensor the searches.

anyway,we Chinese use Chinese language. Whether Google is the best searching tool in the English-speaking world (or maybe the whole western world) is simply irrelevant to us. anyone like you or anybody else who knows nothing behind the scene while claims so confidently "Chinese people's loss" is just funny. ^-^

BTW, i'm a quater chinese and my wife is full chinese. So I wouldn't be so fast to claim I don't know the system. I also lived in a communist country until my 20s so I might know more than you think.

It is "Chinese people's loss" if they decide to search in english. It might just be a small cluster of people but these people are losing that capability. That's not difficult to understand, right? And, again, Google is not stopping them.
 

alain

Older and Wiser
Marko said:
I think all internet search engines should filter out political drive news or publications.

Why? Let the reader decide. That's the beauty of freedom. You make your own choices.

I can see clearly you think that blogger is talking smack from your point of view, so you avoid it. Do you need somebody to filter that content? No. That's what makes the internet great. People express their opinion and you have the choice to decide.

Let's try to make an analogy. Suppose tomorrow the moderators of this forum decide to ban all access from mainland china. This site will be losing a number of participants that add to the richness of topics and discussions, different opinions. We, as member of the forum, will be missing different views. That's what chinese people inside mainland china are missing when google results are filtered.
 
Marko said:
What do you mean human rights? American claimed that Iraq has massed destruction weapons and they found none. They invaded this country and told the world...hey i safe you from human rights. What about the black people in USA huh?

Hey, American is good to tell great story when they slap on other. Why don't they attack Israel that killed so many Palestinian. They invaded other people land too...come on. Give me a break!

Relax this is a quant forum, not your political ranting website ...

First of all, your logic is limited to black vs white. Secondly, you don't distinguish between government and regular people. Thirdly you make no difference between state vs company.

Let's take them systematically. Please reply to me off-line because you have changed the subject of this topic


Government vs regular people

Government:
- Iraq is definitely a failed decision however it's not a human rights tragedy. Most Iraqis have continued their life as before, they are not "persecuted" more by current regime than Saddam.
- U.S. government was a mediator in the Middle-East conflict. I don't think they helped a lot, but they are not certainly the cause of all problems. Other than that, your statement is absurd.

Regular people:
- Minorities in States have same rights as majority. This starts with use of language and it continues with all sort of support programs. Compared with most countries, U.S. society is an example of dealing with racism. Your remark doesn't apply.

State vs Company
- Google does not represent all Americans, not even the state. They take decisions about their business and that is all. Americans are not competing with Baidu or provide uncensored Internet content. Google is doing that.

Several people on this thread have tried to explain to you the last point. If you still don't understand it, your internal censorship gene is the cause. The solution is simple: stop reading other replies, stop checking the forum.
 
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