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India's educational system

And Indian comapnies work totally on their own. They never outsource. BS. Secondly first check up on yahoo/google before blatanlty saying that the numbers are wrong.

Secondly to compare profits reported according to Indian accounting standards and comparing those with US accounting standards is irrelevant.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=INFY+Key+Statistics ( Gross $2.5 EBITA $2 B) -Infy
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GOOG+Key+Statistics -Google
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MSFT+Key+Statistics -Msft

Your blatant statement that all these numbers are wrong is a fallacy and unsubstantiated.

Finally, why did they ever go in Back office work if they were so competent at creating new things. You need imagination, creativity, guts to risk billions to create new things.

Even with high risks involved in possible billions of losses in those, companies such as MSFT/Apple/Google continue pouring billions to create new things.

How many new things, revolutionary, that are visible have been created by Indian IT companies or most companies in general.
 
@ Aditya

Do you even read the full thread? or just jump into conclusions?

The question was whether American programmers are much more efficient, productive, creative than Indian counterparts, and I believe those comparisons completely show that they are.

How many googles, facebooks, twitters, microsofts, intels, oracle, etc etc....... have come out of India.

Heck, India doesn't even has its own search engine in the league of google/baidu, and we call ourselves IT superpower. Can't these Indian IT companies create even a good search engine that meets the needs of every Indian? Entrepreneurship is very limited in India (some fault lies with people some with government policies).

Just see South Korea revolutionized electronics industry.

Similarly, China revolutionized high speed rail.

Why are Indian goods more expensive than Chinese ones, even though wages are, in general, much higher in China? Why do we need protectionism from Chinese. With 1/4th the per-capita income of China, India should have been challenging China.
 
In my experience this is very realistic article, thanks for sharing.

Guys, let me give an example from real life. I'm from Ukraine and we compete with India on IT market. We are more competitive because of the quality, but not all software products (especially for back-office) need our quality that is why they go to India.
So, one morning a couple of years ago in one outsourcing Ukrainian company all software engineers receive a message from Indian Software Architect from India who criticize some of our students and says: "Guys, you wrote the code in the same way like Indians do it, don't do this way anymore".... :)
 
In my experience this is very realistic article, thanks for sharing.

Guys, let me give an example from real life. I'm from Ukraine and we compete with India on IT market. We are more competitive because of the quality, but not all software products (especially for back-office) need our quality that is why they go to India.
So, one morning a couple of years ago in one outsourcing Ukrainian company all software engineers receive a message from Indian Software Architect from India who criticize some of our students and says: "Guys, you wrote the code in the same way like Indians do it, don't do this way anymore".... :)

I don't know about Ukraine, but I do know Latvia and Estonia (I've been there several times over many years). They are poor countries -- but their education system is top-notch and their coders excellent. If Ukraine is anything close, then the Ukrainians must be good coders. Everyone knows that outsourced work goes to India only because it's cheap -- not because Indian code (or anything else) is of high quality. There are good Indian programmers -- but as a general rule the coding isn't tight, coherent, well-documented, maintainable. It's spaghetti. It's like comparing a Tata Nano with a BMW.
 
You are too uninformed. The fact is that Indians are too good at cheating; therefore, they get caught less number of times.

Do you even look at the list of countries with highest amount of Black money in other nations?

India has $1.6Trillion dollars! ~= GDP of India. More any any other country. Let alone China/US etc.

Do you even know that many Indians bribe officials of prestigious Institutes such as IITs, DCEs, NITs to give them the question paper (entrance exam) so that they can know the answers beforehand (Don't believe me? , just google). I have lived my entire life in India, and I believe that I am in a better position to comment on whether Indians cheat or not.

Once or Twice, if someone is caught vying for a place in IIT/IIM through illegitimate means, does not mean it's full of corrupt people in there. Unfortunately, there might have been a few, but you can not say in general. Did you study from an IIT/IIM?
Of course not, You were not able to get into any of them. Please corrupt me if I am wrong here.

I have lived my entire life in India, and I believe that I am in a better position to comment on whether Indians cheat or not.
Not a single day of your life, you have been into these institutions, so better not to speculate.

Total BS. There is no such 1 child policy in India, still there is corruption from top to bottom in India. As a matter of fact I paid $200 to get my driving license made (without giving any driving test!) because apparently they wouldn't pass me unless I go through the way of a pimp. It isn't just me. Almost everyone, in India, has obtained a driving license in this way. Even passports can be obtained in this manner.

Now, This looks scary. Did you got your passport in the same way? Wonder how you were not caught. Or, if you know anyone who has, I can help you report that. The solution starts right here this way!
Did you bribed someone to get your driving license? You are the one on the wrong side dude! Unfortunately, There are a lot of your kinds out there.
 
@ pankaj

Boy you have been smoking something. All those posts that you quoted were in response to topic " recommendation letters and personal essays faked by Chinese to get into top US colleges". I said the same is done by Indians. Big deal. From where did you bring in IITs/IIMs I don't get it.

Finally I have provided huge amounts of documented proof of corruption in IITs. It wasn't just speculation, if only you could work hard to go through all that stuff. Don't just jump in making outrageous comments.
 

menovive

Columbia MAFN
And Indian comapnies work totally on their own. They never outsource. BS. Secondly first check up on yahoo/google before blatanlty saying that the numbers are wrong.

Secondly to compare profits reported according to Indian accounting standards and comparing those with US accounting standards is irrelevant.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=INFY Key Statistics ( Gross $2.5 EBITA $2 B) -Infy
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GOOG Key Statistics -Google
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MSFT Key Statistics -Msft

Your blatant statement that all these numbers are wrong is a fallacy and unsubstantiated.

Finally, why did they ever go in Back office work if they were so competent at creating new things. You need imagination, creativity, guts to risk billions to create new things.

Even with high risks involved in possible billions of losses in those, companies such as MSFT/Apple/Google continue pouring billions to create new things.

How many new things, revolutionary, that are visible have been created by Indian IT companies or most companies in general.

check up on yahoo/google - Why do i have to check yahoo If I can download the Originals from their website. When you talk about profit generally everyone mention the Net and not some EBIT/Gross. You cannot round off 1.9B to 2B. First of all this 1.9 itself is inflated with so many projections. And so is the 150K Resource strength. That is also inflated coz they always consider numbers in "Last Twelve months" and "Offers given" basis. Bro, This is my 6th year with TCS. So Please.

They never outsource. BS. - TCS Outsource jobs like security guards and Cleaners. They did way before, but just to try out the 'Client shoes'.

In Delhi atleast 400 TCSers work at offshore alone for Apple. So +400 to apple / -400 from TCS ? Back Office work? No !! Those are some mere stereo types. They are actually involved in developing applications for Mac and yes they are into company financials as well. Also My Friend is writing drivers for Next Gen Office Applications in Microsoft. He is an Infosys Employee. Another Friend, again my class mate, a PLC programmer with Infy working for Microsoft, Seattle. And Of course TIW cannot afford PHDs or any Research fellas as that is not their Business they Focus on. And I do agree that they also have 'not that fabulous/ipad like' ideas. Doesnt mean every where it is the same. Everyone company that works with computers are not competing. Those days are Long gone !!

MSFT/Apple/Google continue pouring billions - First of all those companies are flooded with Indians/Other nationalities in every positions. Secondly, The Scale of Business in US is humongous compared to any other nation. Thats why they are on $14T debt but again their economy is different. It is a problem with the system not the companies. And of course it is changing and will take time. every country had problem which they had overcome in time. If you come up with an Idea what would you do. Try to develop and sell it in India or take next flight to US and start marketing it there ? Ofcourse you will go where the money is !!

Accounting standards - The Net Profit is the same no matter whether you receive in $ or or Gold !!

;) . I thought I shouldn't write anything. But I wanted to mention some mere facts against some stereotypes. I think the word "Debate" doesn't carry a positive charm as the word "Discuss" does. anyways I am stopping it here. but I will be reading though.
 
@ D Gerg and @ BBW

I couldn't agree more with both of you. Tata Nano is called an innovation , a great product, the dawn of innovation, the might of Indian Industry. This at best is too naive. There is nothing innovative about it, except it sells for $2k.

Innovation is when you make a car that reduces pollution. I just went through the website of BMW Germany and was amazed to find that their cars (Euro V) are much much more fuel efficient that small cars such as Tata Nano. BMW cars produce much much less CO2/km than most cars made by Indian companies such as Tata. FYI, Suzuki is not an Indian company, nor is Hyundai.

Cars such as Tata Nano are recipe for environmental destruction. The last thing you want is hand over inefficient cars into the hands of millions of people.
 
check up on yahoo/google - Why do i have to check yahoo If I can download the Originals from their website. When you talk about profit generally everyone mention the Net and not some EBIT/Gross. You cannot round off 1.9B to 2B. First of all this 1.9 itself is inflated with so many projections. And so is the 150K Resource strength. That is also inflated coz they always consider numbers in "Last Twelve months" and "Offers given" basis. Bro, This is my 6th year with TCS. So Please.

They never outsource. BS. - TCS Outsource jobs like security guards and Cleaners. They did way before, but just to try out the 'Client shoes'.

In Delhi atleast 400 TCSers work at offshore alone for Apple. So +400 to apple / -400 from TCS ? Back Office work? No !! Those are some mere stereo types. They are actually involved in developing applications for Mac and yes they are into company financials as well. Also My Friend is writing drivers for Next Gen Office Applications in Microsoft. He is an Infosys Employee. Another Friend, again my class mate, a PLC programmer with Infy working for Microsoft, Seattle. And Of course TIW cannot afford PHDs or any Research fellas as that is not their Business they Focus on. And I do agree that they also have 'not that fabulous/ipad like' ideas. Doesnt mean every where it is the same. Everyone company that works with computers are not competing. Those days are Long gone !!

MSFT/Apple/Google continue pouring billions - First of all those companies are flooded with Indians/Other nationalities in every positions. Secondly, The Scale of Business in US is humongous compared to any other nation. Thats why they are on $14T debt but again their economy is different. It is a problem with the system not the companies. And of course it is changing and will take time. every country had problem which they had overcome in time. If you come up with an Idea what would you do. Try to develop and sell it in India or take next flight to US and start marketing it there ? Ofcourse you will go where the money is !!

Accounting standards - The Net Profit is the same no matter whether you receive in $ or or Gold !!

;) . I thought I shouldn't write anything. But I wanted to mention some mere facts against some stereotypes. I think the word "Debate" doesn't carry a positive charm as the word "Discuss" does. anyways I am stopping it here. but I will be reading though.
Did you ever take the pain to read that Indian companies are just not innovative. Indian companies and Indians employed in those will always code third grade stuff, as compared to someone at Microsoft, and will always do Back Office work. You talk about Applications that TCS build for Apple or drivers whose code was written for Microsoft, when that is just another example of Back Office work. Why can't TCS be Apple make its own stuff.

Tell me why can't TCS build its own OS, if it really is so great and innovative? Can't it write a simple OS in Hindi so that each and every Indian can use his mother tongue while interacting with computer.

TCS has been in existence for , did I say since before Microsoft and Apple existed, let alone Google, and what has it accomplished since then. Not profits not revenues, I talk about something truly innovative, something life changing like the Windows, the iPod, the iPhone, the search engine Google. All it has been doing for last 40 years is back office work.

I believe no Indian company, including TCS,Infy, Wipro, or anybody else, has created anything close to innovative/revolutionary.
 
Tell me why can't TCS build its own OS, if it really is so great and innovative? Can't it write a simple OS in Hindi so that each and every Indian can use his mother tongue while interacting with computer.

Implying software companies need to make their own OS to be innovative... what?

Folks, stop feeding the troll and let this thread die on its own. Let rishab dhar, who will surely respond, be the last post.
/out
 
MSFT/Apple/Google continue pouring billions - First of all those companies are flooded with Indians/Other nationalities in every positions. Secondly, The Scale of Business in US is humongous compared to any other nation. Thats why they are on $14T debt but again their economy is different. It is a problem with the system not the companies. And of course it is changing and will take time. every country had problem which they had overcome in time. If you come up with an Idea what would you do. Try to develop and sell it in India or take next flight to US and start marketing it there ? Ofcourse you will go where the money is !!

You are right. Let us see what the future reveals. What I would be interested to know is if Indian companies are creating their own consortium to pioneer next-generation work. In the way Japanese organisations have done, with MITI providing overall coordination. Are the Indians going beyond being commission agents and junior partners to Western MNCs? Are they creating their own infrastructure and making long-term investments in human capital? Then there are grounds for optimism.
 
@Rishabh

Please take the JEE exam once again and we all pray that you get selected this time......May be then you will start talking something which makes sense....
Corruption is a problem in every developing nation of the world.That's one of the components of equity risk premium of developing market economies.....
Apple , Microsoft all have plenty of Indian employees.
Infosys TCS Wipro .... they are meant to take outsourced work and are in different line of business in which they are doing exceptionally well.....
If you talk of Innovation by an Indian .... Pentium , Bose , are the names which instantly came to my mind....
You are trying to sound like an aware , logical and concerned citizen , but there is a small problem..... that neither you are much aware nor logical and I don't think much concerned (as you have done nothing about it and helped corruption yourself) ....
 
@ darth

I can't possibly think that attacking me personally would India or its Education system any better. You are no one to make choices for me, and I do what I like, so do not ask me to take the JEE because I'm not interested. The one in which I was interested were GRE and GMAT. I took the GMAT and scored a 720.

I talked about an Innovation by an Indian in India and not outside India. FYI Bose is based outside India. I attacked India's education system and India, and not the ability of Indians.

Finally, If India's education system and India so great, why are close to 70% IITians living outside India or studying outside India(for Masters/PhD). Why not research at IIT?

Stanford has produced more (Billion dollar market cap companies -TECH) than all Indian engineering colleges combined.

Last time I checked Pentium was the name of a processor.
 
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