MBA + Quantitative Background == MFE?

[talthun]

Hi everyone,

I'm wondering about something that I'd like feedback on. Most of us here have quantitative backgrounds at the undergraduate level, in the sciences or engineering. So for someone wanting to break into finance with such a background, is it better to (1) complete a MBA with a specialized finance track, as possible with the required curriculum; or (2) get a MFE degree?

I know MBA is a "soft degree" with an absence of really any mathematics at all, yet I'm curious about this. :-k Would someone with a background in EE and exposure to stochastic processes be just as marketable as someone with a MFE, i.e. would recruiters and hiring managers think one with a technical background and business know-how from a MBA could more or less pick up quantitative finance quickly?

 

[bigbadwolf]

I'm wondering about something that I'd like feedback on. Most of us here have quantitative backgrounds at the undergraduate level, in the sciences or engineering. So for someone wanting to break into finance with such a background, is it better to (1) complete a MBA with a specialized finance track, as possible with the required curriculum; or (2) get a MFE degree?

I know MBA is a "soft degree" with an absence of really any mathematics at all, yet I'm curious about this. :-k Would someone with a background in EE and exposure to stochastic processes be just as marketable as someone with a MFE, i.e. would recruiters and hiring managers think one with a technical background and business know-how from a MBA could more or less pick up quantitative finance quickly?

Just my humble and equivocal opinion for what it's worth. If the hiring managers have any brains, they should consider you. But typically MFEs are expected to hit the ground running (though they seldom do). Stochastic isn't inherently that important -- except maybe to demonstrate that quantitative material is within your power. Some solid coding experience, some experience with Monte Carlo, some PDEs, some solid statistics, probability, and time series analysis, and some numerical analysis is what competent hiring managers should be looking for. And with the possible exception of Monte Carlo, I presume you already have this to offer. The finance you should get from a decent MBA program

 

[MikeK]

would recruiters and hiring managers think one with a technical background and business know-how from a MBA could more or less pick up quantitative finance quickly?

There is such a wide variety of quant jobs out there that I think an MBA + your EE degree would suffice for many. It really depends what you want.

 

[aajoshi]

There is such a wide variety of quant jobs out there that I think an MBA + your EE degree would suffice for many. It really depends what you want.

I agree with Mike..it really depends on what you want. But there are lot of things that comes with it..
- MBA and/or MFE from which school ?
- Part time or full time ?
- Are you willing to make financial commitment for an full time MBA/MFE from a top school if you can get into one.
- How much of the real depth you had in stochastic from your previous degree(s) ?

To me, at some point you will need both. MBA gives the breadth and MFE gives you the depth. Also, I read somewhere on this forum (not sure) that today's market is very competitive and for high paid jobs managers do not want someone who can just apply the concepts learned in MFE or MBA class. They want innovators who can assimilate your learning and knowledge and invent something new. All these things should be factored in while making your decision. thats my $0.02

 

[alain]

- Are you willing to make financial commitment for an full time MBA/MFE from a top school if you can get into one.

What is a top school? Your definition of a top school might be totally different from what a hiring person wants. Usually the person who hires doesn't care where you are coming from... HR is another matter.

Also, and this is usually for international students, forget about rankings and top schools and the like. A hiring manager is looking for you to add something to them. If you can't add anything to their business, it doesn't matter if you have won the Nobel Prize, you won't be hired.

To me, at some point you will need both. MBA gives the breadth and MFE gives you the depth. Also, I read somewhere on this forum (not sure) that today's market is very competitive and for high paid jobs managers do not want someone who can just apply the concepts learned in MFE or MBA class. They want innovators who can assimilate your learning and knowledge and invent something new. All these things should be factored in while making your decision. thats my $0.02

I don't know about breath and depth... that seems really subjective.

 

[talthun]

thank you for the replies...

to answer some questions...

(1) i am considering a part-time mba or mfe program at university of chicago (i'm currently in chicagoland as opposed to nyc)

(2) my ee background is not undergrad...i have a bs in math w/ a minor in comp sci (some c++ long long ago); i have two ms deg in ee, one from an ivy league school, and i am currently in a phd program (part-time) while working (full-time); my graduate work has been a source of my concentration in stochastic optimal control

(3) i'm looking for a postion where i do more modeling than implementation, though i hope to do a little of both...i'm wondering if most of the phd quants rather have this type of job?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

(2) my ee background is not undergrad...i have a bs in math w/ a minor in comp sci (some c++ long long ago); i have two ms deg in ee, one from an ivy league school, and i am currently in a phd program (part-time) while working (full-time); my graduate work has been a source of my concentration in stochastic optimal control

With this much schooling and you still wanna do MBA/MFE ?
Why not just finishing your PhD and get a job ?

 

[talthun]

hey andy,

i want to finish the phd, but it's a tricky situation;i left the university on a 1-yr leave of absence last sept; currently my fiance is about 1.5 yr from finishing her md and starting her residency, and we're about to get married; this situation has created a few difficulties with the phd:

(1) i'll probably lose my fellowship at the university for reason of not being able to re-enter the program next sept. due to finances; it's impossible for a young couple to get by in chicago on a phd stipend

(2) my fiance despises phds, and doesn't emotionally back my desire to finish mine; she won't move to the area near my school for her residency so that i can complete the degree

(3) given (1) and (2), i have lost my support at the university (probably), i am a part-time student, and at best i'm doing the program remotely, about 100 miles from the university: the added time it will take to my degree coupled with the fact that my advisor is nearing retirement and really doesn't take well to the idea of his students being so far away makes me altogether feel i am out of an advisor, and he's the only one in my department really that's working with stochastic optimal control

i guess i could find an advisor in the math dept. doing this type of research, but even still the time to degree in a part-time phd program is immense; furthermore that immenseness is amplified when one's job does not pertain to their thesis and their partner doesn't back them; i'm seriously thinking my phd under these circumstances would be brutal and i'm weighing my options, hence my consideration of mba/mfe...kind of sucks though, i think phd ee > mba + mfe + 2*ms ee, though it's just my opinion and not to offend anyone on here

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You should talk to someone who knows you personally. I'm afraid to give you any advice since it may worsen your situation.
Forget about the phd. It's not gonna happen. Doing it part time + working full time + advisor retiring + fiance hating = road to neverland.
In case you decide to do mfe/mba, I hope you realize how much it costs. 50K-80K for most of the programs.

i think phd ee > mba + mfe + 2*ms ee, though it's just my opinion and not to offend anyone on here

I don't think anyone here is offended. We have a lot of posts by PhD EE looking for a job, way to do MFE to get into finance. People here are practical. PhD > MFE debate is something we can care less.

 

[talthun]

thanks agains, andy, for your post

it's not so much that i think the phd is a "better" degree as certain degrees serve certain purposes...but as far as developing independent researching skills, the phd is great

my dream was to work in finance for 5-10 yrs with my phd, and then enter a business school at some university to teach quantitative finance and do relevant research...without a phd though, i think i'm awaking from my dream for good if i just give into the mba/mfe... no phd => no academia - ever

 

[MikeK]

no phd => no academia - ever

Not necessarily. A lot of business schools have professors who don't have PhD's but have lots of good industry experience. I really don't know if they do research at these institutions or if they just show up and teach classes. But I don't think you'd be shut out completely.

Have you considered a CFA? Its completely self-study, relatively inexpensive (compared to a masters or PhD program) and it may be the edge you need to break into finance, since you already have the masters in EE background. Just a thought. I think you have a lot of options, so don't get too down on yourself just because a PhD may be impractical in your current situation.

Best of luck.

 

[alain]

Hi talthun,

How long have you been at shool? How much practical experience do you have? Have you ever worked outside of school? What exactly do you want to do: Academia or Real life business?

It looks like you have a lot of qualifacations which is great, but to some people you might look like a professional student.

 

[Eddie]

seems talthun have triggered Andy and Alain's sensitive spots, lol,

Hey Alain, I'm in One World now, let's catch up for lunch sometime, eyeh,

no big name schools, everybody, heard that. After all, knowledge is what you pursue, not names, be a little more grounded.

 

[alain]

seems talthun have triggered Andy and Alain's sensitive spots, lol

I wouldn't call it sensitive spot. I will call it inexperience.

 

[talthun]

thanks again everyone for the posts

i've been in grad school a total of 3 yrs; i'm done all of my courses and just need to write the dissertation, which i've made no real progress on

i do have about 4 yrs of industry experience, 3 of which is in defense for northrop grumman and lockheed; that work experience dealt with the systems and test engineering aspects of software design; i essentially took part in every area of commercial software development except for actual coding

in my current job, i do modeling and analysis work on hydraulic systems with a bunch of mechanical engineers; not really an ee job but it pays ok and is for a well-know corporation

 

[Sailor Sam]

Hey guys,

I am just graduating from the University of Michigan undergraduate program with a degree in Computer Science Engineering. I will be starting full-time at a BB in their Technology division, developing applications for them.

I am very much interested in becoming a quantitative analyst in finance, but am unsure of the best way to get there. I have talked to one of my professors that teaches Derivative Instruments and he claims that, work experience as a developer + an MBA from a great school (think NYU, Columbia) would be enough for me to get into Quantitative Finance.

He claims the technical courses they teach in an MFE, I most likely either have already learned or will learn from experience on the job or independent study. Any advice would be appreciated! From what I understand from the previous posts, it is possible to get into quantitative finance with an MBA (specialization in finance/QF) with an undergrad background in a technical field. Is there anyone out there who can attest to that? What caliber of business school is required?

 

[IntoDarkness]

whydya wana be a quant after mba anyway... theres better jobs out there

 

[Sailor Sam]

whydya wana be a quant after mba anyway... theres better jobs out there

Because I have a passion for building quantitative models to explain financial markets/phenomena, but don't want to invest the time/money into a full-time phd program. Again, my professor suggested the MBA route and I wanted to hear this community's thoughts.

What sorts of jobs do you consider "better?" I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!