COMPARE NYU MSMF v/s Columbia MSFE v/s CMU MSCF (pitts)

[kpranjal]

Hey Guys,

This is Pranjal, 21 yrs from India. I have received positive results from NYU, CMU and Columbia. Now I'm in a fix as to what the final choice should be. I post this in the NYU forum, because, I am tilted a bit towards NYU, but still, any advice would be most welcome! The money involved is not a very big problem, but what should the choice be between the above institutes, based on reputation and employement.

Candor would be most appreciated!

Thanks a lot!

 

[sgupt]

a brief description about ur past education n future goals will be useful if u r luking for any suggestions...

 

[kpranjal]

yeah , sure, apologies for missing that. I am an undergraduate in Mathematics and Computing, from a top indian college. I guess its safe to say that I have a strong background in both Mathematics and Programming. This said, I'm still a fresher with only 2 internships in finance, one in the industry and the other one was under a prof. (research oriented).
As far as future goals are concerned, I aim to work in the quantitative side of finance for a few years before doing an MBA (still fuzzy on this).

 

[sgupt]

hmm..u already hv a masters degree?..firstly congrats for getting admission..secondly y dont u take a 1-year workex n then go ahead with anyone of them...all r pretty gud..anyway..if u ask me..columbia course will be the best..

 

[Paul Mithouard]

yeah , sure, apologies for missing that. I am an undergraduate in Mathematics and Computing, from a top indian college. I guess its safe to say that I have a strong background in both Mathematics and Programming. This said, I'm still a fresher with only 2 internships in finance, one in the industry and the other one was under a prof. (research oriented).
As far as future goals are concerned, I aim to work in the quantitative side of finance for a few years before doing an MBA (still fuzzy on this).

There are a lot of threads regarding this question. They usually compare NYU VS CMU.

Columbia MSFE seems to lag a bit behind those two.
(This is a personal opinion)

 

[LeoDong]

CMU is early founded and ranked tier 1 on quantnet. As CMU has almost best computer science department in the country, in the meantime, MSCF or MFE requires rigorous programming skills, I would prefer CMU to NYU.

 

[CharlesT]

There are a lot of threads regarding this question. They usually compare NYU VS CMU.

Columbia MSFE seems to lag a bit behind those two.
(This is a personal opinion)

Can you give some resaons why "Columbia MSFE seems to lag a bit behind those two."?

 

[CharlesT]

CMU is early founded and ranked tier 1 on quantnet. As CMU has almost best computer science department in the country, in the meantime, MSCF or MFE requires rigorous programming skills, I would prefer CMU to NYU.

Actually CMU's program has nothing to do with its famous Computer Science Department. You can see from their website that the only Professor teaching programming is not from CS department.

 

[mfegrad]

There are a lot of threads regarding this question. They usually compare NYU VS CMU.

Columbia MSFE seems to lag a bit behind those two.
(This is a personal opinion)

i really wouldn't consider that to be a personal opinion, paul

 

[CharlesT]

i really wouldn't consider that to be a personal opinion, paul

Can you pls summarize the reasons?

 

[bullion]

Columbia MSFE has a lot more exit options than CMU / NYU students do. If you're interested in MBA, Columbia will also be a better brand name... and we all know how much top MBA schools are obsessed with brand names.

Columbia MSFE lags a bit because CMU and NYU specialize in S&T almost exclusively. If you read CMU's full employment report, almost all graduates work in S&T as quant. Columbia, however, prides itself in placing graduates in a wide spectrum of professions. The flexibility is great when there are more money around. When times are bad, however, employers look for specialists who can start contributing on day one, and Columbia's curriculum simply isn't customized enough (or they lay that responsibility on the students to choose specialty). In addition, CMU / NYU courses follow a very rigid curriculum and a strong sense of continuity. It's like taking one class that just never ends. Every Columbia course, however, is an elective that needs to accompany drop-ins from all majors, so that may or may not limit the depth professors can really get into.

 

[CharlesT]

Columbia MSFE has a lot more exit options than CMU / NYU students do. If you're interested in MBA, Columbia will also be a better brand name... and we all know how much top MBA schools are obsessed with brand names.

Columbia MSFE lags a bit because CMU and NYU specialize in S&T almost exclusively. If you read CMU's full employment report, almost all graduates work in S&T as quant. Columbia, however, prides itself in placing graduates in a wide spectrum of professions. The flexibility is great when there are more money around. When times are bad, however, employers look for specialists who can start contributing on day one, and Columbia's curriculum simply isn't customized enough (or they lay that responsibility on the students to choose specialty). In addition, CMU / NYU courses follow a very rigid curriculum and a strong sense of continuity. It's like taking one class that just never ends. Every Columbia course, however, is an elective that needs to accompany drop-ins from all majors, so that may or may not limit the depth professors can really get into.

Thanks for your suggestions. If we look at Columbia IEOR's faculty list, there are many famous adjunct professors teaching practical electives just like NYU, while the CMU's program is mainly taught by academic professors. Columbia MSFE has 8 core courses that is designed exclusively for MSFE, also most of the high level Columbia MSFE's electives require prerequisite of the MSFE core curriculum. So I think it is very hard to say that the program is not deep.

 

[bullion]

CharlesT I will seriously argue against that. While CMU's program is mainly taught by academicians, they work closely with alumni and their advisory board (all practitioners from major banks) to deliver up-to-date information. A practitioner-based faculty can mean better materials / potential placement opportunities, but it can also mean the professors will have no time to answer your emails and/or outside of class. In fact, a common complaint about NYU's program is that they go over things really fast and you'll be expected to fill in the knowledge gaps yourself (you'll be teaching yourself C++, apparently). In contrast, academicians MAY have years of practice to explain difficult concepts to children. It's not a comparison you can make simply by going through the faculty list

I'm not aware of the "exclusive" courses you're referring to. Multiple references in this forum has been made regarding the availability of MSFE courses as electives to non-MSFE students. There also seems to be ways for getting around those prerequisites. I am only making an inference to point out a common difference between standardized and customizable curricula. It is also commonly agreed that CMU and Baruch has much heavier programming components than Columbia. With that said, most students speak highly of the Columbia teaching, and I recommend sitting in for yourself to see (I did, and I found the professor quite engaging.)

 

[CharlesT]

CharlesT I will seriously argue against that. While CMU's program is mainly taught by academicians, they work closely with alumni and their advisory board (all practitioners from major banks) to deliver up-to-date information. A practitioner-based faculty can mean better materials / potential placement opportunities, but it can also means the professors will have no time to answer your emails and/or outside of class.

I'm not aware of the "exclusive" courses you're referring to. Multiple references in this forum has been made regarding the availability of MSFE courses as electives to non-MSFE students. There also seems to be ways for getting around those prerequisites. I am only making an inference to point out a common difference between standard and customizable teaching styles. Most students speak highly of the Columbia teaching, and I recommend sitting in for yourself to see (I did, and I found the professor quite engaging.)

Please refrain from using the internet as your sole measure for how "good" a program is. Every curriculum was designed to fit different students and employers. CMU / NYU have very strong (but somewhat limited) focus in S&T / quants / developers, and Princeton / Cornell / Columbia tend to do if you want to cross over to other fields. Although graduates pursue similar positions, they are not the same and you should just find the program most suitable to your professional needs. Arguing which is better than which shows nothing but juvenile attempt for attention and approval from a largely indifferent audience.

I didn't argue which is better than which. I was just providing some information, because I saw a bias on this website (Some people just argued that Columbia is lagging behind without providing any details. So does the ranking of MFE programs. For example, it really doesn't make sense that UCB has lower rank than Baruch, just because UCB's admission rate is higher?? haha) I didn't say CMU's courses are not good. I just said the fact that they are taught by academic professors. Different people have different preferences. I'm just providing information. I agree that I should be more critical about the information from the Internet. (For example, Quantnet.) People who read this information can do their own research. Smart people will neither believe my argument nor yours directly. They have their own opinions and their own choices. Also, at the end of the day, I don't think it makes a big difference about which program you choose. It all depends on what kind of person you are. What kind of job you can find has mostly been determined before you enter the program.

 

[bullion]

haha, oh god... yeah, about UCB and Baruch.... this site is run by Baruch alumniAndy Nguyen. Now I'm pretty sure he's fair and all, but sometimes I too find his comparisons / metrics a little weird. As far as my insider network goes, UCB is a great school and that's all I care to know. Overall, I think it's people like you who make this forum worthwhile by providing detail information. Thank you.

Columbia.... so much mixed feelings. But basically, you'll be competing with 200+ students with very similar interests (mostly money-hungry Chinese who can't speak English... and I can say that because I am Chinese. others saying it will just be racist :p). A common criticism is Columbia's lack of designated program placement assistance, although I think the department has someone now - Mindi Levinson. From my limited interaction with their staff, however, I wouldn't be surprised if a student tells me he was left to dry after graduation. With the exception of business schools where placements are closely watch, most universities and departments don't seem to be that helpful with placement especially for international students. So when Baruch, UCB, and CMU offers designated placement assistance and produces solid placement track record year after year, they understandably become highly valued among prospective students.

 

[CharlesT]

haha, oh god... yeah, about UCB and Baruch.... this site is run by Baruch alumniAndy Nguyen. Now I'm pretty sure he's fair and all, but sometimes I too find his comparisons / metrics a little weird. As far as my insider network goes, UCB is a great school and that's all I care to know. Overall, I think it's people like you who make this forum worthwhile by providing detail information. Thank you.

Columbia.... so much mixed feelings. But basically, you'll be competing with 200+ students with very similar interests (mostly money-hungry Chinese who can't speak English... and I can say that because I am Chinese. others saying it will just be racist :p). A common criticism is Columbia's lack of designated program placement assistance, although I think the department has someone now - Mindi Levinson. From my limited interaction with their staff, however, I wouldn't be surprised if a student tells me he was left to dry after graduation. With the exception of business schools where placements are closely watch, most universities and departments don't seem to be that helpful with placement especially for international students. So when Baruch, UCB, and CMU offers designated placement assistance and produces solid placement track record year after year, they understandably become highly valued among prospective students.

Thank you for your information.
Just be careful, for the placement officer. You provided the MS&E's. The MSFE's is below.
http://www.ieor.columbia.edu/staff-bios/senderowicz/staff.html
I really don't want to search any more information. It's so time consuming. I think students who are interested in this field can search by themselves.