# UCB MFEUCB MFE numbers for 2010 - Fake and Unethical?

• ### Prohibit their students from any forum posting in the future. Put it in the contract.

• Total voters
43

#### Tigga

Just saw this post over on GD forum, supposedly from a current student of UCB MFE program. Any UCB MFE people can verify, dispute?

Berkeley Numbers for 2010 - Fake and Unethical?

Do you really believe those salary numbers for 2010 (http://mfe.berkeley.edu/careers/placement.html)? If you do, may God help you.

We don't or at least most of us know that it is severely inflated. I am a current MFE student at UCB and we do not believe it. Or at least 4 people from my group in 1st Quarter and 4 people from current quarter do not believe it.

How can this be true when there are so many people with base salary in 80k? I remember talking to some people from the graduating class and they said 80 – 90k is what people regularly get as base but yearend bonus is what makes a guy rich. They had a pretty good offers.

I guess you also counted guys with internship offer (not real job) and their expected salary if they get full time offer as well. On top of that you added 10 - 20% premium on those inflated salaries and bonuses as well. Yes there are a number of guys who got just an internship offer after completing 1 year of MFE at UCB! I remember very well the day I landed in Berkeley and heard about placement statistics from the graduating batch. Believe it or not, many of us felt like we should just go back to our original jobs. But we are on a student visa!

Well UCB if you cared about ethics and consequences of violating UCB ethics so much, you would yourself not put out these numbers. Ohh I forgot you are the guys who enforce UCB ethics! I still remember the orientation day when you thundered each consequence of being unethical at UCB.

I am sure my classmates and alumni are going to come out and say how much of an idiot I am. Some will say she is fake and that she is just trying to prevent others from getting into UCB. But, at least people who have been through UCB MFE know it better even though you might try to sound different.

MFE at UCB is really great, you get a degree from one of the best business schools and you get good grades as well. After all about half of the class (more than 30) received A+ in the Stochastic Class or at least that is what the teacher said in the class (I will give A+ to half of the class). Which school in US gives out A+ to more than half of the class?

As far as teachers go, you have some great mascots like Rubinstein. He proclaims proudly in the class how he has not touched finance for 5 years and so can’t debate on anything current in finance. He might as well teach a course called “Finance as it was 5 years ago” or “Dinosaur in Finance”.

Long ago a career office in another really good school commented “I do not know how UCB people have so much gumption to cook those numbers”. But I guess you just do it and hope no one is going to speak up.

I am sure the UCB MFE office is going to come out with vengeance but it would not change the way we feel about those numbers. We all know it is a lie.

#### Tigga

This reminds me of the UCB MFE review. When someone has something negative to say about his own program, rather than encourage the whistle blower, people just seem to try to shut him up.

"Don't make your program look bad" is the unspoken rule, it seems.

#### elliot

Or at least 4 people from my group in 1st Quarter and 4 people from current quarter do not believe it.

So, only 5 (frustrated) guys don't believe the numbers.

#### atreides

This doesn't make any sense... why would UCB post fake stats??

#### Andy Nguyen

If you are the author of that post on GD or a current/past student and would like to tell your side of the story privately, I can be reached at andy at quantnet.com

#### JDMe

I do not understand why people do not encourage current students to come out and speak the truth about the program they are attending, instead of bashing them for speaking up.

I guess this is the reason that people do not want to come out in open and we are left wondering about the veracity of their experience.

#### atreides

I do not understand why people do not encourage current students to come out and speak the truth about the program they are attending, instead of bashing them for speaking up.

I guess this is the reason that people do not want to come out in open and we are left wondering about the veracity of their experience.

I don't think anyone is discouraging whistle blowers...That is one reason sites like Quantnet exist.. to educate and enlighten. Evidence to this are the numerous reviews for MFE programs on quantnet.

#### MNB

=======

I am a graduate of the 2010 class. There is a not insignificant chance that I know you in person. If you do know me, you will know that I am a pretty nosy chap. In fact, I have compiled the complete list of students and their final company destinations which to the best of my knowledge is really quite accurate.

What I can tell you is that 80-90k is a severe underestimate, and the published stats look perfectly reasonable to me. Over 1/3 of the graduating class now work at Bulge Bracket IBs, and 1/2 of the class are on the sell side at large international banks. Since there is also a handful of students working at *very* well paid prop shops / algo trading companies, I have no doubt that the median salary is above 95k and the mean is likely to be higher.

Incidentally, I am one of the people counted as "not placed". For your information, I have received two offers at BB IBs, both paying > 100k base, but declined both since I am looking for something slightly different.

=======

#### tylor

random unrelated/sumwhat related question: is there any way of finding average salaries 3yrs out, 5yrs, 10yrs, etc.?

#### JDMe

=======
Incidentally, I am one of the people counted as "not placed". For your information, I have received two offers at BB IBs, both paying > 100k base, but declined both since I am looking for something slightly different.

=======

3 months after graduation still unemployed, you claim to have offers >100k from BB and IBs but not accepting it....sounds too good to be true.....or is it that I am too naive in finance field?

or is it that I am too naive in finance field?

It is because you are naive and a complete idiot. You have absolutely no idea of the value of the Berkeley brand name on Wall Street.

#### alain

##### Older and Wiser
It is because you are naive and a complete idiot. You have absolutely no idea of the value of the Berkeley brand name on Wall Street.

Calling names is hardly a way to strengthen your point.

BTW, maybe I'm naive too but the name of the school you are coming from hardly means anything with the people I know and work with in this field... and that is not a small sample.

All interviews come down to:

- Does he/she know it or not?
- If he/she knows, could we work with him/her?

It is an oversimplification but it more or less how it works. If you don't have a job and you have gone to interviews, you probably failed one of the points above.

#### MNB

3 months after graduation still unemployed, you claim to have offers >100k from BB and IBs but not accepting it....sounds too good to be true.....or is it that I am too naive in finance field?

Yes fortunately (for me) you are being a touch naive - my story is entirely true! And yes I have been accused of being too picky...

#### JDMe

It is because you are naive and a complete idiot. You have absolutely no idea of the value of the Berkeley brand name on Wall Street.

....lol....I can't believe a simple statement/question like that would make someone as pissed.

#### const451

It is because you are naive and a complete idiot. You have absolutely no idea of the value of the Berkeley brand name on Wall Street.

I know a guy who went from a programming job to a glorified programming job after completing Berkeley MFE, and that was during the heydays of 2006.

#### Tigga

It is because you are naive and a complete idiot. You have absolutely no idea of the value of the Berkeley brand name on Wall Street.
Can you elaborate about the value of that brand?

Don't want to offend but it also would be helpful to know if you have any affiliation with the UCB program as either alumni, staff, marketing dept, etc.
Or if you have no relation with the program but know the value of that brand, let us know.

It's good to hear from people with first hand knowledge of the program instead of some random rant.

Can you elaborate about the value of that brand?

Don't want to offend but it also would be helpful to know if you have any affiliation with the UCB program as either alumni, staff, marketing dept, etc.
Or if you have no relation with the program but know the value of that brand, let us know.

It's good to hear from people with first hand knowledge of the program instead of some random rant.

I did MFE but not from UC-Berkeley. I am not affiliated in any way with UC-Berkeley.

#### Tigga

Thanks for clearing it up. I have come across a few posts from "traderjoe" user on various quant forums who sings the UCB MFE praise tirelessly so it makes me wonder.

Honesty is the best policy. This is 2010 and it would be suicidal for any program or person to lie or even slightly mislead their students aka paying customers. Information wants to be free and the truth will come out one way or another. Once that happens, the brand they try to build for years will be damaged for good.
Look at what happened to the Fordham MSQF program and its FAIL PR crisis handling.

UCB MFE is toeing a same line as well and given that they have representatives on various forums, I wonder how and when they will react to this.

#### MNB

Honesty is the best policy. This is 2010 and it would be suicidal for any program or person to lie or even slightly mislead their students aka paying customers. Information wants to be free and the truth will come out one way or another. Once that happens, the brand they try to build for years will be damaged for good.
Look at what happened to the Fordham MSQF program and its FAIL PR crisis handling.

UCB MFE is toeing a same line as well and given that they have representatives on various forums, I wonder how and when they will react to this.

Toeing what line, Tigga? Everything posted by the Berkeley MFE is factually accurate, as is everything I have said (and as far as I know I am the only one defending the program by referring to statistics / numbers).

All I have seen is one post doubting the accuracy of the numbers, and that seems to be only based on word of mouth rather than anything concrete.

I have a proposal for you! See if you can find out the standard bulge bracket IB year 1 associate base salary. I'll give you a hint: it's pretty much universally $100k or$95k. That'll help explain the numbers...!

Well, I did my PhD at a Business School in USA which is ranked in the same level as UC-Berkeley by US-News and Business Week. I can tell you for sure that UC-Berkeley is the best MFE program in USA regardless of the quantnet rankings. The do not need people on various forums to defend the program. The MDs are anyway going to fly to Berkeley to hire their students.

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