# wall street to cut 80,000 jobs

#### Uncle Max

"...said Meredith Whitney, the former Oppenheimer & Co. analyst who now runs her own firm."

#### Yike Lu

##### Finder of biased coins.
"...said Meredith Whitney, the former Oppenheimer & Co. analyst who now runs her own firm."
:D
You ever thought about being a lawyer?

#### Andy Nguyen

Meredith is known for her pessimistic tone. Her call to fame was the report on Citigroup which turned out to be very accurate.
Whether it turns out to be a double dip like her prediction, it's prudent for people seeking to do an MFE to have a contingency plan.
Last thing we need is another influx of disillusioned graduates who cry all the way home with a broken dream. And a large loan they can't repay.

#### Uncle Max

You ever thought about being a lawyer?

No But I've read a lot of deal prospectuses (legal documents) which usually are 300-400 pages long and there are 4-5 pages with meaningful information. Thus, it's not hard to find a tricky line just by glancing at the text

On the other note, it's possible that firms will cut 80,000 jobs, but most of those jobs will be retail sales etc. Smart people are still rare on the Street, so MFE students/applicants - don't worry, you will be fine if you know what are you doing.

#### latency

what do you mean by "retail sales"? I am also a bit more concerned on the sales and trading side of things given that volumes are very low now after a very good first quarter. No sign of these picking up any time soon.

No But I've read a lot of deal prospectuses (legal documents) which usually are 300-400 pages long and there are 4-5 pages with meaningful information. Thus, it's not hard to find a tricky line just by glancing at the text

On the other note, it's possible that firms will cut 80,000 jobs, but most of those jobs will be retail sales etc. Smart people are still rare on the Street, so MFE students/applicants - don't worry, you will be fine if you know what are you doing.

On the other note, it's possible that firms will cut 80,000 jobs, but most of those jobs will be retail sales etc. Smart people are still rare on the Street, so MFE students/applicants - don't worry, you will be fine if you know what are you doing.

Well the students from India put up their family homes as collateral for the $100K loan to get the MFE degree. If they can't get a job or no US company is willing to sponsor their work permit, the bank WILL take their home and leave their family homeless. The bank doesn't care about US recession or US visa restrictions. They only want their money back. I think the students have a responsibility to do due diligence and to contact the international students at the university to find out the true story about jobs for international students. The universities are conveniently not revealing much information about placement statistics. These poor guys will go back home with shattered dreams,$100K debt, and a diploma which cannot get them a job.

#### ThinkDifferent

don't do MFE. there are too many of them out there, as a result it becomes less and less valuable (number of mfe graduates growth way faster than the number of quant openings on the market).

#### Uncle Max

what do you mean by "retail sales"?

Well, it's something like when you sit at the bank and try to sell some mortgage backed securities to someone who is opening savings account.

...students from India put up their family homes as collateral for the $100K loan to get the MFE degree... If they put their family welfare at risk and don't make a proper research I don't think any financial institution will want to hire them. #### elliot Well the students from India put up their family homes as collateral for the$100K loan to get the MFE degree.
How many students do that? Only a stupid family will agree to this. Economy is booming in India and there are jobs everywhere for engineering/science graduates. Those who get such loans must be greedy.

How many students do that? Only a stupid family will agree to this. Economy is booming in India and there are jobs everywhere for engineering/science graduates. Those who get such loans must be greedy.

Actually, over 90% of the Indian students who come for MFE take loans through banks like Global Student Loan Corporation (GSLC) (see Baruch MFE website, it is the only lender for no-cosigner loans). Less than 10% of the students have the cash to pay the tuition without taking a loan. The Indian government does not provide any student loans, so they have to take the loans through the banks.

#### DominiConnor

There are actually several questions here when working out in an MFE is a 'good' investment.

1: Does it have a positive expectation of returns.
Yes, but note the word expectation, interpret everything I write here in math finance terms, not ordinary English.

2: Is it the optimal investment for me ?
Almost certainly not.
I can say this even though I don't know you. The problem is that it's very very hard to work out what will be good over the 40 years you will be getting returns from this investment.

3: What does it do to my risk ?
Education has the effect of reducing your downside risk, and increasing the optionality of any given situation. Although Real Ooption Theory is barely covered on most MFEs, the intuitions you gain are critical to optimising your career.
At some point you will be screwed over by the market, your boss, changes in technology, regulation, the economy, or your country going to war. That's a fact. Arts graduates and evangelicals lack the depth to understand that the world of 2025 will be very different. I have no idea what will come to get you, but it's already on it's way.
I'm 48, and even now from time to time I find my brain going back over decades of shit I learned for no obvious reason, and finding it useful. If I knew more, I'd be richer.

4: Are you personally good at this stuff ?
Some people I know make good money out of really dismal lines of work, because they are masters of it. Even in the boom, some people with good qualifications struggled because they weren't in a line of work that they could beat others.

5:Are you foreign ?
Banking is spreading out, both in terms of the people who do it, and where it is done. China has a more primitive banking system than Zimbabwe, that's going to change, India is better but in no way good, that needs to change as well. But for a a long time, most money will be made in London, NY etc. Can you work the visa system ? What is your plan B ?

6. Do you speak English ?
I've spoken with Dan Stefanica on this topic, and been reassured that Baruch is taking a tough love approach to this. If you can't speak English you're fucked in this line of work. Some universities take a softer line, and turn out semi educated peasants.

7. Do you cheat at the coursework ?
I'm impressed by high quality cheating, google on Ed Thorpe Claude Shannon Shoe Computer for that. But last night I dined with the head of maths at one of the top 10 global universities, and was treated to a list of very low quality cheating. Cut & paste, commissioned course work, "group efforts", etc. He wouldn't tell me names of course, but I rather think that P&D might invest a little time on this.
A degree from a top school can easily cost more than a Porsche. Cheating is like pissing in the
fuel tank to save money. Getting a more clued up classmate to help is rational, but in this game your only real capital is what you understand, not what you can google. Everyone else can google, you can't beat them that way.

This is an awesome post. It should be required reading for all the people who want to apply to MFE programs.

#### dstefan

##### Baruch MFE Director
6. Do you speak English ?
I've spoken with Dan Stefanica on this topic, and been reassured that Baruch is taking a tough love approach to this. If you can't speak English you're fucked in this line of work. Some universities take a softer line, and turn out semi educated peasants.

Great post, Dominic! Great - and, indeed, anybody thinking about doing an MFE, and in particular people from abroad, should read it, and try to understand it.

As for our approach to knowing English, we interview everyone before offering admission. Thus, we will know first hand how good your communication skills in English are, including how well you understand spoken English. We do not require Toefl scores anymore since we will take the time to check your command of English.

As an aside, I have been impressed in recent years by the command of English of young people from China. They speak a much better and fluent English than people who graduated ten years ago, for example, even after those people studied in the US.

#### Andy Nguyen

"...said Meredith Whitney, the former Oppenheimer & Co. analyst who now runs her own firm."
Her interview on C-Span last week with her view on financial sector

#### atreides

A quote for the times.

A degree from a top school can easily cost more than a Porsche. Cheating is like pissing in the fuel tank to save money. Getting a more clued up classmate to help is rational, but in this game your only real capital is what you understand, not what you can google. Everyone else can google, you can't beat them that way.

#### Andy Nguyen

Now that I can like posts, I just gave Dominic #14 post a well deserved like.

Replies
4
Views
653
Replies
8
Views
983
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
454