Advise for undergrad quant trading summer intern

[PeteOnNet]

Looking for advise for a family member who will be an intern at a top market maker next year. They are currently a junior in a top business school and not a math major. Since summer internships at these firms seem to attract Masters and PhD students as well from top schools, how can these undergrad student be successful and have a reasonable chance at getting a return offer when the competition is from different league of candidates? Are they evaluated differently during the internship? Do the undergrads get this opportunity based on their potential and will the company generally invest in their on the job learning given that they are not math majors (or some financial engineering degree). Just want to confirm that it is not an unfairly uphill battle for undergrad interns from non-math majors compared to Masters and PhD students in their cohort.

 

[MikeLawrence]

They are evaluated differently, if your family member performs better than the rest of the undergrad cohort then there is a return offer waiting. He/she probably won't be the very best intern, there isn't usually a clear winner anyway (I don't think) but if he/she is one of the top 1-2-3, or whatever depending on the size of the firm, then there is a shot at a return offer.

 

[PeteOnNet]

They are evaluated differently, if your family member performs better than the rest of the undergrad cohort then there is a return offer waiting. He/she probably won't be the very best intern, there isn't usually a clear winner anyway (I don't think) but if he/she is one of the top 1-2-3, or whatever depending on the size of the firm, then there is a shot at a return offer.

Thank you for taking the time to answer this question. Your response is very helpful.

 

[QuantCoach]

No, all interns are evaluated the same regardless if they're an undergrad, masters, PhD, math major or not - everyone is held to the same standard. Background is only considered when getting the internship offer, after that background means almost nothing and it's all about contribution (we hate it when people 'rest on their laurels'). Undergrad students can still be successful because being a PhD or a math major does not give an inherent advantage to being a good trader. Several undergrad interns at my firm can run circles around many professors in terms of pure trading. We hire PhDs and math majors for new grad not because of how directly applicable the skills are (because they're really really not) but because doing something difficult and still excelling in it is a positive signal that they have the drive and learning capability to succeed in trading, characteristics that many undergrads that aren't necessarily math majors can have too.

 

[MikeLawrence]

No, all interns are evaluated the same regardless if they're an undergrad, masters, PhD, math major or not - everyone is held to the same standard. Background is only considered when getting the internship offer, after that background means almost nothing and it's all about contribution (we hate it when people 'rest on their laurels'). Undergrad students can still be successful because being a PhD or a math major does not give an inherent advantage to being a good trader. Several undergrad interns at my firm can run circles around many professors in terms of pure trading. We hire PhDs and math majors for new grad not because of how directly applicable the skills are (because they're really really not) but because doing something difficult and still excelling in it is a positive signal that they have the drive and learning capability to succeed in trading, characteristics that many undergrads that aren't necessarily math majors can have too.

I stand corrected. You should listen to QuantCoach's advice and not mine.

@QuantCoach, does it work the same in non-trader roles? Trader roles I can understand, but outside of that I'd think the graduate fellows have a substantial edge in knowledge, so in a research setting I'm not sure what to think. Although, I guess 0/few undergrads really get hired for research anyway, so those who get a shot could just be expected to be brilliant.