Does ranking matter all that much inside QuantNet's top 10?

[KiwiEngineer]

Does the ranking of different programs inside QuantNet's top 10 matter for getting interviews?

For example, if a UChicago MSFM (currently ranked at #10) and a Carnegie Mellon MSCF (ranked at #3) student were to apply to the same internship or full-time roles (assuming identical credentials, grades, previous experience, etc ...), would one get more interview opportunities than the other?

I understand that some programs may offer more stronger academic courses than others due to the nature of their program and their faculty (Professors rather than practitioners), but in terms of job opportunities (which is often the main point of these programs) is there really a difference between all of those?

In the end, isn't it up to each student to secure the opportunities, and could a difference in placement between different programs just be due to selection bias?
(Meaning students who are able to secure more sought after opportunities are going to the "better" programs, and the program they go to thus doesn't actually play a role in the result of their career search)

Would love to hear your opinion about this.

 

[jarryds]

I would argue that ranking really does not matter at all. Programs that are "higher up on the ranking" look great on the resume because they are reputable programs, not because of the QuantNet ranking. When you are picking a graduate program, make sure that it has connections and a path to the respective industry. Rule of thumb, any program recognized and ranked by QuantNet probably fills that requirement. I can't speak for recruiters, but I would bet they either do not know of this ranking system or care.

 

[MRoss]

"For getting interviews" is much more than what you are insinuating.

I coach many quant students, and something I hear consistently from Columbia MFE students is: "You are so lucky you went to Baruch. They actively help you find a job. Over here they just want you out of the program and the next students in".

Does Baruch MFE look better than Columbia MFE on paper? Probably not.

But there is way more than prestige, especially w.r.t. finding your first quant role.

 

[MMFInfoAcct]

"For getting interviews" is much more than what you are insinuating.

I coach many quant students, and something I hear consistently from Columbia MFE students is: "You are so lucky you went to Baruch. They actively help you find a job. Over here they just want you out of the program and the next students in".

Does Baruch MFE look better than Columbia MFE on paper? Probably not.

But there is way more than prestige, especially w.r.t. finding your first quant role.

Do career services of MFE programs actually even help? I feel its mainly up to the individual to land the quant interview independent of the quality of career services the MFE program offers (except in rare cases if the career service includes using industry/alumni connections to forcibly get you an interview that you wouldn't get otherwise). I'm fairly neutral towards Columbia MFE but I don't get why people are blaming their program and not themselves - the reason they're not landing a job has less to do with the MFE and more to do with what they didn't do in their undergrad (getting top grades, getting great undergrad internships, etc.)

Does the ranking of different programs inside QuantNet's top 10 matter for getting interviews?

For example, if a UChicago MSFM (currently ranked at #10) and a Carnegie Mellon MSCF (ranked at #3) student were to apply to the same internship or full-time roles (assuming identical credentials, grades, previous experience, etc ...), would one get more interview opportunities than the other?

I understand that some programs may offer more stronger academic courses than others due to the nature of their program and their faculty (Professors rather than practitioners), but in terms of job opportunities (which is often the main point of these programs) is there really a difference between all of those?

In the end, isn't it up to each student to secure the opportunities, and could a difference in placement between different programs just be due to selection bias?
(Meaning students who are able to secure more sought after opportunities are going to the "better" programs, and the program they go to thus doesn't actually play a role in the result of their career search)

Would love to hear your opinion about this.

What you did in the undergrad (past internships, any publications to top journals, if you went to a target school, if you were the best in your class) matters ALOT more than the ranking of the MFE program you go to in terms of finding a job. Yeah Princeton/Baruch have better placements but I think this has more to do with the average quality of the students than the program itself (many Baruch students come from Peking and Tsinghui which means in high school they were top level students).

 

[Michsund]

Do career services of MFE programs actually even help? I feel its mainly up to the individual to land the quant interview independent of the quality of career services the MFE program offers (except in rare cases if the career service includes using industry/alumni connections to forcibly get you an interview that you wouldn't get otherwise). I'm fairly neutral towards Columbia MFE but I don't get why people are blaming their program and not themselves - the reason they're not landing a job has less to do with the MFE and more to do with what they didn't do in their undergrad (getting top grades, getting great undergrad internships, etc.)


What you did in the undergrad (past internships, any publications to top journals, if you went to a target school, if you were the best in your class) matters ALOT more than the ranking of the MFE program you go to in terms of finding a job. Yeah Princeton/Baruch have better placements but I think this has more to do with the average quality of the students than the program itself (many Baruch students come from Peking and Tsinghui which means in high school they were top level students).

Also remember Baruch and Princeton are very small programs where as cmu and Columbia have close to 100 kids. Almost 4x more students. So considering that cmu and Columbia do an amazing job.

 

[KiwiEngineer]

Do career services of MFE programs actually even help? I feel its mainly up to the individual to land the quant interview independent of the quality of career services the MFE program offers (except in rare cases if the career service includes using industry/alumni connections to forcibly get you an interview that you wouldn't get otherwise). I'm fairly neutral towards Columbia MFE but I don't get why people are blaming their program and not themselves - the reason they're not landing a job has less to do with the MFE and more to do with what they didn't do in their undergrad (getting top grades, getting great undergrad internships, etc.)


What you did in the undergrad (past internships, any publications to top journals, if you went to a target school, if you were the best in your class) matters ALOT more than the ranking of the MFE program you go to in terms of finding a job. Yeah Princeton/Baruch have better placements but I think this has more to do with the average quality of the students than the program itself (many Baruch students come from Peking and Tsinghui which means in high school they were top level students).

I agree which is why I’m raising the question about whether the top programs are actually the top ones because of the quality of the program or whether it’s because the top students go there (which in turn leads to better employment statistics and thus a higher relative ranking)

 

[Michsund]

I agree which is why I’m raising the question about whether the top programs are actually the top ones because of the quality of the program or whether it’s because the top students go there (which in turn leads to better employment statistics and thus a higher relative ranking)

I think cmu is definitely a top program because of dumb people like me. I really didn’t focus throughout my mfe and I was still given the tools to be able to land interviews and a jobs that I probably shouldn’t have been able to. So yeah I totally get what your saying.

 

[SD_]

Seeing the forum for the last few months I had a doubt regarding this as well. If you imagine an international student (who doesn't earn in $) getting into Chicago MSFM with a 70% scholarship and CMU MSCF with no scholarship, how will you even make the case for going to CMU? How will you justify going to CMU to yourself and your parents (if you are a fresh grad and they will be sponsoring)?

 

[Michsund]

Seeing the forum for the last few months I had a doubt regarding this as well. If you imagine an international student (who doesn't earn in $) getting into Chicago MSFM with a 70% scholarship and CMU MSCF with no scholarship, how will you even make the case for going to CMU? How will you justify going to CMU to yourself and your parents (if you are a fresh grad and they will be sponsoring)?

I went to cmu no scholarship. Well for me right now it’s worth it on the fact on the doors it opened. Without the degree no chance I would be in the quant field. I’m not even working right now due to personal issue but if I was I could find a job ASAP which will pay me a lot of money. I guess it’s a big investment but I had money saved up and my parents helped. So yeah.

 

[KiwiEngineer]

Tbf I was mostly looking for reassurance that every program in QN's top 10 will allow you to have more or less the same job opportunities, all other factors aside. For example, will certain banks disqualify you instantly and not give you a chance to interview for a desk quant position if you are studying at NYU or Cornell MFE's (two of the lower-ranked ones on QN) rather than studying at CMU or Columbia MFE?

 

[SD_]

I went to cmu no scholarship. Well for me right now it’s worth it on the fact on the doors it opened. Without the degree no chance I would be in the quant field. I’m not even working right now due to personal issue but if I was I could find a job ASAP which will pay me a lot of money. I guess it’s a big investment but I had money saved up and my parents helped. So yeah.

@Michsund, I'm not saying whether paying CMU 90k$ is worth it or not!
Ofcourse it is, everyone is willing to pay them basically, considering it's a top program.

The question I asked was that, suppose there is a funding problem (like for most international students) and that you have an offer from another top 10 MFE program with a 60-70% scholarship, what would you have done? Gone to CMU with a heavy loan or fully funded your education by what basically anyone can afford? Also consider this given that you have a 70% scholarship means that your profile was stronger relative to the pool, you might be one of the top 5% candidates in the class.
With the added conditions, does your answer change?

 

[SD_]

Tbf I was mostly looking for reassurance that every program in QN's top 10 will allow you to have more or less the same job opportunities, all other factors aside. For example, will certain banks disqualify you instantly and not give you a chance to interview for a desk quant position if you are studying at NYU or Cornell MFE's (two of the lower-ranked ones on QN) rather than studying at CMU or Columbia MFE?

I don't think they can just reject you for being with a program without even considering your full application.

 

[Michsund]

@Michsund, I'm not saying whether paying CMU 80k$ is worth it or not!
Ofcourse it is, everyone is willing to pay them basically, considering it's a top choice program.

The question I asked was that, suppose there is a funding problem (like for most international students) and that you have an offer from another top 10 MFE program with a 60-70% scholarship, what would you have done? Gone to CMU with a heavy loan or fully funded your education by what basically anyone can afford? Also consider this given that you have a 70% scholarship means that your profile was stronger relative to the pool, you might be one of the top 5% candidates in the class.
With the added conditions, does your answer change?

Yes if I had wanted to leave nyc and go to another school which would have offered me over 50% scholarship I would probably take it. Saving 40-50k for is probably not to bad of an idea. The schools I was willing to go to only gave me up to 25% scholarship which wasn’t worth it for me

 

[SD_]

Yes if I had wanted to leave nyc and go to another school which would have offered me over 50% scholarship I would probably take it. Saving 40-50k for is probably not to bad of an idea. The schools I was willing to go to only gave me up to 25% scholarship which wasn’t worth it for me

Exactly my point, Chicago MSFM will definitely snatch some top people and this will be reflected in the rankings soon.

 

[MMFInfoAcct]

Tbf I was mostly looking for reassurance that every program in QN's top 10 will allow you to have more or less the same job opportunities, all other factors aside. For example, will certain banks disqualify you instantly and not give you a chance to interview for a desk quant position if you are studying at NYU or Cornell MFE's (two of the lower-ranked ones on QN) rather than studying at CMU or Columbia MFE?

ur undergrad experience will determine if you land the interview for the quant internship rather than if you're CMU/Columbia or Cornell/Columbia. For example, for the 2022 summer internship season, internship recruiting starts even before MFE program starts (ppl started looking in August and quite a few hedge funds started superdays like earlier than november).

 

[KiwiEngineer]

ur undergrad experience will determine if you land the interview for the quant internship rather than if you're CMU/Columbia or Cornell/Columbia. For example, for the 2022 summer internship season, internship recruiting starts even before MFE program starts (ppl started looking in August and quite a few hedge funds started superdays like earlier than november).

Ok thanks for clarifying. Do you have any advice on projects or things to do this summer to maximize my recruiting opportunities, given that I can’t change my grades or internships in one summer.
Things like networking, doing some machine learning projects geared at finance, making sure I’m on top of all the probability and statistics I can learn, etc …?

 

[MMFInfoAcct]

Ok thanks for clarifying. Do you have any advice on projects or things to do this summer to maximize my recruiting opportunities, given that I can’t change my grades or internships in one summer.
Things like networking, doing some machine learning projects geared at finance, making sure I’m on top of all the probability and statistics I can learn, etc …?

one of my friends who's starting a MFE this september is boosting his profile by interning at a smaller hedge fund this summer (I didn't even know you were allowed to do an internship the summer before the MFE but apparently you can). All my friends from undergrad who went to MFE did summer research with fairly well known professors and published smthin to boost up our profile the summer before our MFE. Projects should be a last resort - in my interviews (and my friends interviews as well), there was never a single question on the personal projects we did. They always just ask abt what we did during our internship/research. Projects are more for yourself to learn.. You can also work on interview prep (this won't increase ur recruiting opportunies, but helps capitalize on your opportunities better).

 

[KiwiEngineer]

one of my friends who's starting a MFE this september is boosting his profile by interning at a smaller hedge fund this summer (I didn't even know you were allowed to do an internship the summer before the MFE but apparently you can). All my friends from undergrad who went to MFE did summer research with fairly well known professors and published smthin to boost up our profile the summer before our MFE. Projects should be a last resort - in my interviews (and my friends interviews as well), there was never a single question on the personal projects we did. They always just ask abt what we did during our internship/research. Projects are more for yourself to learn.. You can also work on interview prep (this won't increase ur recruiting opportunies, but helps capitalize on your opportunities better).

I have a non-quant related internship (as a Credit Analyst with a Credit Rating Agency) this summer, so maybe part time research with a prof might be more feasible for me. Did your friends do research with professors at the schools they were going to join in the fall or at their undergraduate institution?

 

[Mallaby]

Hi everybody,
I have been reading the points discussed in this group, and I can see people who are attending programs like Columbia/Cornell/NYU (Quantnet top 10 programs) get more opportunities to interview at firms, given the fact that the person himself should be dedicated throughout the program.
I will be attending Boston Univerity's MSMFT program in September'22, and thus wanted to understand whether the employment opportunities after the program will be limited? If I manage to stay in the top 1% of the class, will it not furnish equal opportunities for me as somebody who is in Columbia/Cornell, etc.? From what I gather, Boston University is known for its solid academics.

 

[KiwiEngineer]

Hi everybody,
I have been reading the points discussed in this group, and I can see people who are attending programs like Columbia/Cornell/NYU (Quantnet top 10 programs) get more opportunities to interview at firms, given the fact that the person himself should be dedicated throughout the program.
I will be attending Boston Univerity's MSMFT program in September'22, and thus wanted to understand whether the employment opportunities after the program will be limited? If I manage to stay in the top 1% of the class, will it not furnish equal opportunities for me as somebody who is in Columbia/Cornell, etc.? From what I gather, Boston University is known for its solid academics.

Honestly, it seems really hard to tell. I was also asking myself the same question although when comparing NYU and Columbia for example. I think the posters above answered it pretty well in that when you apply for a job opportunity, your whole application is considered, and the program you come from is only one part of it. So I don't think going to Boston would disqualify you from certain opportunities, given that your background is similar to that of the "average" Columbia or NYU student.