French MFE Programs

[didje]

Hi everyone!

I've been navigating on the website and I discovered the Financial Program Selector, which shows data on various MFE programs and I asked myself this question (since I'm French) : why isn't there more data on French MFE programs ? I've seen data from austrian, turkish and even african programs but there is no french programs in it. I know that a lot of economic schools in France offer different financial masters (like ESSEC, EDHEC of HEC) so why aren't they more represented ?

 

[Dibbs]

I have a few friends studying mathematical finance at polytechnique paris. In my opinion, the program is very highly regarded but only in France. From what I heard , most students are french or from arabic countries (tunisia, morocco, etc).

So my answer regarding the misrepresentation of these program is that accessibility is somewhat restricted to french people (much easier for international students to choose an english program). The pool of applicants in MFE programs that will consider french MFE's is therefore much lower..

Due to this lack of clientele, perhaps quantnet has decided to omit them from the list...

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Our list was originated from the list of programs on IAFE website. Overtime, we added much more programs and details.
Ultimately, it's a choice we make of how do we better use our limited time and resource. Do we spend more time adding info on popular programs or do we try to cover every program on earth.
At some point, we will cover every program on Earth. A lot of our info is coming from people like @didje who heard of local programs send us links to those programs.

 

[Dibbs]

This is the program I was talking about. They have highly influencial professors in the fields of finance and stochastic control. (Touzi, El Karoui).

http://www.mathematiquesappliquees.polytechnique.edu/home/programs/masters/m2-probability-finance/

 

[menovive]

Job Prospectus and No so Bad Net Pay !! (For Non-EU)... Avaliable there ??

 

[Valid]

Hey! There are many excellent MFE programs and I think that the best is the "Master Finance et probabilités de Paris VI" which is commonly called "Master El-Karoui" among students. It's highly requested in the City, but what about other countries?? Well I don't know. For the other masters these 3 are the most known (not classified): Masef, ENSAE(engineering school) and Dauphine.
It could be nice if someone could tell us if students graduating from these universities/schools find easily jobs abroad (I mean outside France) especially England or the States.

 

[didje]

Yes I Know about the El-Karoui Master. One of my friend is currently a student from that master. It's highly focused on mathematics though.

 

[Moumou]

Hey! There are many excellent MFE programs and I think that the best is the "Master Finance et probabilités de Paris VI" which is commonly called "Master El-Karoui" among students. It's highly requested in the City, but what about other countries?? Well I don't know. For the other masters these 3 are the most known (not classified): Masef, ENSAE(engineering school) and Dauphine.
It could be nice if someone could tell us if students graduating from these universities/schools find easily jobs abroad (I mean outside France) especially England or the States.

El karoui is considered as the best, but I'm not sure that masef ensae and dauphine are the most known with el karoui.

In France, you have 3 different categories of MFE:

In Engineering schools : Ponts, Ensae, Polytechnique, Centrale Paris
In Universities : El karoui, Laure Elie, Lamberton, Masef (Dauphine), Evry
In Business schools : HEC, ESSEC, ESCP, EDHEC (not really an MFE but more like MFin)

People from the top Engineering school find a job quite easily in Paris or London. It is a lot more difficult to find in NY that's obvious because of Visa issues.

 

[Moumou]

This is the program I was talking about. They have highly influencial professors in the fields of finance and stochastic control. (Touzi, El Karoui).

http://www.mathematiquesappliquees.polytechnique.edu/home/programs/masters/m2-probability-finance/

The official website of Master El karoui is http://www.master-finance.proba.jussieu.fr/index2.php

As you see, it's in French and I doubt that it accepts students outside France (maybe except if you think you have phd level of Mathematics)

 

[Andy Nguyen]

International students generally want to go to an English speaking country for higher education. This means US, UK, Canada, Australia, Singapore.
While French programs may use English as teaching language, you have to speak French to make your life easier there.

I'm curious to know how many applicants these French MFE programs receive each year and how they compare to the US counterparts. Do they publish such numbers online?

 

[Dibbs]

@Andy : I would also be interested in the french program numbers in terms of admission, offers, etc.

In terms of placement, there is no doubt that most of these students easily find jobs in western europe. Some of these schools have a very good brand name in Europe (In the states also, but I'd say their reputation is somewhat shadowed by the reputation of some of the american programs).

P.s. : It's also great that we've been able to spark a discussion about the french programs!

 

[didje]

Here are a few links where you can find curriculums but not so much informations on the number of applicants and job placement. You have to understand that, in France, those schools are generally considered among the best ones so there is no doubt that their
programs can lead to great internship and careers in Europe.

Although, you should note that French school system is really different from the others and I think that it also adds to the lack of visibility on these programs and their international recognition.
ESSEC Advanced Master's Degree in Financial Techniques
http://www.essec.edu/programs/advan...anced-master-degree-financial-techniques.html

EDHEC MSc in Finance
http://msc-finance.edhec.com/jsp/fiche_pagelibre.jsp?CODE=03960401&LANGUE=1&RH=MscFin-02

ENSAE Master in Quantitative Finance
http://www.ensae.fr/ensae_engl//content/view/63/102/

 

[SagaG]

Most of these programs accept international students but most of them are indeed in French and if you don't speak French well...
Some schools are setting up programs in English (like HEC and its MS International Finance) but even though the program itself is in English, life in France can be a pain in the ass if one does not speak French.

 

[SagaG]

@didje: which school are you studying in ?

 

[didje]

@didje: which school are you studying in ?

I'm currently studying computer science at EPITA as an apprentice. I wish I could enter a MFE program after I graduate or even a year later. I will graduate in 2013 (wish me luck :D).

 

[SagaG]

Well then good luck ! You have time to prepare your applications so use it as much as possible

 

[didje]

Yeah I Know that. I will have a lot of free time in the next two years so I will spend it documenting ant training on financial books and maths !

 

[Valid]

In France, you have 3 different categories of MFE:

In Engineering schools : Ponts, Ensae, Polytechnique, Centrale Paris
In Universities : El karoui, Laure Elie, Lamberton, Masef (Dauphine), Evry
In Business schools : HEC, ESSEC, ESCP, EDHEC (not really an MFE but more like MFin)

I totally agree with you. For the engineering schools there is also ENSIMAG which is gaining a solid reputation + a strenghtening alumni network.

What I want to add is that after doing some research I've found that many students say that the master El Karoui is worthless if you didn't study at Polytechnique or at least the other schools mentioned above. That's because the master is theoritical in nature, so banks need to recruit at least someone who did some engineering studies. Whereas those coming from faculties find it difficult to find a job even with the master.

I'm curious to know how many applicants these French MFE programs receive each year and how they compare to the US counterparts. Do they publish such numbers online?

For engineering schools all depend on your admission in these schools, I don't have exact numbers but places are very limited in comparision to the number of applicants.
For the master El Karoui they take a great majority of students from the best of the french engineering schools + a minority from universities (approximately 8/80).
When I'll find exact and reliable numbers I'll try to post them.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

An old article on the El Karoui program
http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/wsj-article-on-nicole-el-karoui-stochastic-calculus-pitch.134/

 

[drtictac]

The master El Karoui has a very strong mathematical content, stronger than any of the US master programs. It provides an easy access to the City if you're looking for quant jobs and also to the French banks whether their offices are located in the US, Asia or Europe. Like in every French university, it is FREE. It is also widely recognized as the best Mathematics for FE program in France and I have even seen some job offers in France where holding the master El Karoui or the master Laure Elie (slightly less known) was required.
The cons are that you got to be in class 28 hours a week, to be really good in math and to prove it, to learn French.