Grad School Advice

[YayMath]

Hi. So I'm coming from a heavily mathematical statistics background in my undergrad. I am one semester away from graduating so I will be applying to grad schools for september 2013. Throughout my college career I had every intention of going into a phd program and did research in the summers in fields of statistics that deal with finance. However, I have done some soul searching and am not entirely sure that the PhD route is the way to go. I may end up there, but I'm thinking at the moment that getting a master's is a better idea.

I'm looking at MA in statistics or math finance/financial engineering. The main issue is that I don't have any industry experience nor do I really have much knowledge of finance. I have emailed stanford asking about their math finance program. Though they don't actually require an internship, it is a fairly big part of admissions. Does anybody know if this is the same at columbia? I will certainly be applying for the MFE, but as far as the programs in the GSAS go I'm still slightly uncertain.

I doubt that I would be able to apply to both the MA in statistics and MAFN. The MAFN program should be better suited for me if I want to do quant work, correct? I would definitely say I have a better chance of getting into the masters in statistics program, but I have a friend who is going to the university of toronto next year to do the masters in mathematical finance and he said he had no work experience whatsoever.


Thank you!

 

[Jose T]

I've seen more MFE students without work experience than with work experience, personally. If your academic background is strong, you should have a chance to get in.

A Masters in Statistics will probably be more academic than an MFE and it will also build on your background in mathematical statistics to a large extent. However, the program in of itself will likely not orient you towards Finance and you will have to be very proactive about breaking in. An MFE will be much more careerist in terms of both the coursework and the program's services (though there will be some theory in either option).

Statistics is used a lot for many quant type positions, but I think it is still more common for people to have an MFE as training. A Masters in Statistics is broader than an MFE in terms of there being many industries that need data analysis (or experimental design or quality control or data mining etc) compared to an MFE being primarily a credential for the Finance / Investing industry. I would encourage you to just do the program you think you'd get the most out of based on your background and goals.

If you want a PhD, it might be better to make that decision now rather than going back later. Of course, there's nothing stopping you from going back later, but it will probably be easier to get through a PhD at this point in your life.

 

[YayMath]

Thanks for the response. By getting a PhD afterwards I meant right after, that way if I chose to get a Masters then a PhD directly versus getting into a PhD program directly out of undergrad, I would still finish at the same time. The only difference is I would have to pay for my own tuition for a masters. This way I would be able to just finish with a masters. The only way that happens for a PhD is if you fail your quals and that looks really bad..

The thing with columbia specifically though is that I will be exempt from some courses so if I did the masters in statistics I would likely get exemption and take electives that are in the math finance program. Does the actual name of the degree have much of an impact on job prospects?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Forget about the name of the degree and for a lesser extent the name of the school. Focus on the skills. The degree/school may get you in the door but you will need hard skills to do the jobs, which are majority technical.
It's generic to say one having a master or PhD degree in whatever area. Not many people mention what skills they process that are better than 90% of their peers.

 

[Jose T]

I do think the name on the degree masters. Not that I personally think this should be the case, but a lot of hiring managers care a lot about what school you went to.

I'm a terminal masters student, so I don't have any direct knowledge. But I hadn't heard what you wrote above before. I know of many people who dropped out of PhD tracks, masters in hand, and went into industry (one example being my brother who dropped after getting masters and has had a successful non-finance engineering career for about ten years). And they did not have to pay for their masters as a result. Obviously if this is your plan, you can't telegraph it when you apply for PhD tracks or while in your program, but it's definitely been done.

 

[YayMath]

The degree/school may get you in the door but you will need hard skills to do the jobs, which are majority technical.

Technical skills which you acquire from financial engineering degrees? or stuff you will learn while on the job?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Skills that help you hit the ground running on the first day of internship, job. I'm talking about technical skills, acquired either through training or on your own. Think SQL, VBA, Excel, C++, C#, Python, R, etc.
Finance is easier to learn than technical skills.

 

[YayMath]

Thank you once again. So you're saying provided I have the technical skills, degree shouldn't matter too much provided it is a quantitative one?

On another note, do you know which schools in the UK are good for this kind of stuff?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

https://www.quantnet.com/threads/learn-sql.7554/
I wouldn't know much about UK programs since I'm based in the US.

 

[JinWJ]

I will be in a similar situation next year and I would like some advice. I am also looking into masters programs for breaking into quant finance. How does special degrees such as MIT's M.S in Computation for Design and Optimization compare against MFEs in terms of prospects?

I like the fact that it's a trade-off between a full-blown research degree and a terminal degree.

 

[YayMath]

I also read somewhere (could be a rumour) that if you don't get into the MAFN program at columbia, they may offer you a place in the MA in statistics program? I certainly know that is the case for the PhD program. Can anybody verify this for MAFN?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

It's not a rumor. They do refer MAFN applicants to the MS Stats program. I don't know the percentage of those referrals.
Columbia MFE program also refers some applicants to other programs under their IEOR dept.

 

[YayMath]

I'm guessing you can't apply to both the MA in stats and MAFN programs?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I'm guessing you can't apply to both the MA in stats and MAFN programs?

They are under the same Math dept so you can't.