COMPARE Imperial College London MSMF vs Imperial College Business School RMFE

[smile]

Hi, I notice Imperial has two different programs. Anybody can comment on the difference between them, especially future
career path, admission rate, placement rate?

I checked the courses offered in Risk Management, many of them
are very similar with courses in mathematics finance. So, does thismean one graduate from this program still can do front desk job instead of risk management?

I am wondering the difference is not only between front and middle office. After all, one is under math department and one is under business school.....

By the way, the tracker system here has only Math Finance, no information regarding Risk management...

Thanks!

 

[michel]

Hej Smile,
I see that nobody answered you yet... So even if I do not know a lot about the differences in " future career path, admission rate, placement rate" between those 2 MSc. I can still give you my opinion (By the way I will probably go to the MSc mathematics and finance next year ^^):

My feeling is that the stronger your math education is (with respect to be applied to finance field) the easier it will be for you if you want to go on Front Office. As I know it, most of the French FO quant or trader come from highly math selective engineer schools (X, mines, Centrale, Supelec...). Moreover, a lot of people from the IC MSc mathematics and finance end up in trading after 3/4/5 years of quant job.

So if you like mathematics and finance, it is a quite sure path if you want to go to FO.

After that, I do not know a lot of stuff about the MSc Risk Mgmt and Financial Engineering of Imperial College, but as you say it, some courses are in common with the MSc MathFin.

If you find it relevant, admission ratio for mathematic department = 8:1 while for the business school = 6:1 in postgraduate
( http://workspace.imperial.ac.uk/planning/Public/stats_card/statscard_2010.pdf )

Finally, in my opinion, whatever MSc you choose, it's your personal skills that will make the difference.

Cheers

ps: For the tracker (IC MSc in RMFE), I agree, it will be great to create it

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Done, Imperial RMFE has been added to the Tracker. Please be the first ones to add to it

 

[smile]

Thanks. Michel and Andy.

I was asking because Imperial will allow you to choose two programs when you apply.
If you apply for business school, you can choose RMFE as 1st, and MSMF as 2nd choice.
But if you apply through science and engineering school, you can only choose MSMF as 1st choice and no any option from business school....(only nature science and computing..)

But anyway, based on Michel's data, if one fail on RMFE, i don't think he/she will have chance to be admitted to more competitive MSMF (especially as 2nd choice) ...I will go for MSMF as first choice

 

[dgpo]

Hey guys, hope y'all are doing good!

I recently got an offer from Imperial for RMFE. Not sure what the conditions are (I should know soon, hopefully today before theteam go on holiday!).

I am interested in a career in quant. I have one or two projects (including my final year project), an internship at an IB, and haveread some books so I think I am generally in a decent position at my current stage.

However, I hear that the reputation of Imperial RMFE, although very good for quant, is more for risk management and risk roles ingeneral, rather than proper quant. I study Engineering btw, not Maths/Stats/Physics, so I wasn't able to apply for MathFin asperImperial's requirements.

How true is this reputation, and is there any other advice anyone could give? Thanks a lot!

 

[MikeLawrence]

Well, the program has 'risk management' in the name, I hope they aren't misleading people.

I don't know the reputation of the program, but it's probably true.

 

[pepequantmaster]

@dgpo Are you accepting the offer? And which other schools did you apply to?

 

[dgpo]

@pepequantmaster I am about 90% sure I will. The name is too good to turn down, and I actually do like the course now that I have given it time to think. I believe I can tailor my course more toward Financial Engineering rather than Risk Management. And the offer conditions are very favourable too so looking likely! Any thoughts on the course?

 

[pepequantmaster]

Awesome @dgpo. I am excited about the course as well, just that the Risk Management term seems interesting as there are only 1 / 2 modules on Risk for the course based on the handbook.

 

[AllAboutMacro]

Hey guys, hope y'all are doing good!

I recently got an offer from Imperial for RMFE. Not sure what the conditions are (I should know soon, hopefully today before theteam go on holiday!).

I am interested in a career in quant. I have one or two projects (including my final year project), an internship at an IB, and haveread some books so I think I am generally in a decent position at my current stage.

However, I hear that the reputation of Imperial RMFE, although very good for quant, is more for risk management and risk roles ingeneral, rather than proper quant. I study Engineering btw, not Maths/Stats/Physics, so I wasn't able to apply for MathFin asperImperial's requirements.

How true is this reputation, and is there any other advice anyone could give? Thanks a lot!

Hey mate were you at the applicant day? I was and I can defo say the course seems like it's set up for Risk Management. Very few people seem to do anything otherwise, with regards to those who end up being quants. Its starting to look to me like if you really want to become a researcher, trader, dev, the only "financial engineering" type programmes that will land you anywhere good as a graduate are MathFin and MCF. Obvs not impossible, but relatively you're fighting an uphill battle.

 

[dgpo]

Hey mate were you at the applicant day? I was and I can defo say the course seems like it's set up for Risk Management. Very few people seem to do anything otherwise, with regards to those who end up being quants. Its starting to look to me like if you really want to become a researcher, trader, dev, the only "financial engineering" type programmes that will land you anywhere good as a graduate are MathFin and MCF. Obvs not impossible, but relatively you're fighting an uphill battle.

Hey! Would you be willing to dm? I wasn’t at the applicant day as I’m away on Easter break. Would love to talk more!

 

[YZhao]

I just want to share my experience about this course. I once interviewed someone from this course. He was one of the best in his class according to his CV and was a student representative for his course.

He was so poor I ended the interview early and told him that I will not proceed with his application because he failed to apply ito’s formula and cannot tell me what is numeraire. This guy in particular felt unfairly treated and reported me to HR.

In future, if I am screening cv for front office role in a bank, most likely anyone’s cv with this course on it will end up being binned because I am now convinced that the quality of this course is poor.

In contrast, the financial maths course at Imperial is much better. At first I thought this risk management course was that financial maths course - that is why I chose to interview that guy at the first place. My manager did not like the risk management in the name and the candidate’s mediocre undergrad school and did not want to interview even.

 

[dgpo]

I just want to share my experience about this course. I once interviewed someone from this course. He was one of the best in his class according to his CV and was a student representative for his course.

He was so poor I ended the interview early and told him that I will not proceed with his application because he failed to apply ito’s formula and cannot tell me what is numeraire. This guy in particular fell unfairly treated and reported me to HR.

In future, if I am screening cv for front office role in a bank, most likely anyone’s cv with this course on it will end up being binned because I am now convinced that the quality of this course is poor.

In contrast, the financial maths course at Imperial is much better. At first I thought this risk management course was that financial maths course - that is why I chose to interview that guy at the first place. My manager did not like the risk management in the name and the candidate’s mediocre undergrad school and did not want to interview even.

Hey! Really sorry to hear about your experience with the candidate. The only reason I applied to the RMFE course was because I don’t come from a maths/stats/physics background and so couldn’t apply to the MathFin. Assuming I have sufficient projects and internships (I am interning at an Investment Bank - as a Software Engineer though), do you think - in addition to the course - I stand a chance at the screening/interview? Also assuming I tailor my courses to be more quant/math based like statistics/option pricing, etc? I had the same reservations about the Risk Management in the name, but my understanding is that you can tailor the course to be more Risk Management or more Financial Engineering- I plan on doing the latter.

Also, respectfully, I’m not sure if it’s fair for one candidate’s bad interview to influence your outlook on all candidates from that course. Again, I don’t know anything about recruiting, but it does seem a little unfair- if there’s something I’m missing, do let me know!

 

[dgpo]

Hey! Really sorry to hear about your experience with the candidate. The only reason I applied to the RMFE course was because I don’t come from a maths/stats/physics background and so couldn’t apply to the MathFin. Assuming I have sufficient projects and internships (I am interning at an Investment Bank - as a Software Engineer though), do you think - in addition to the course - I stand a chance at the screening/interview? Also assuming I tailor my courses to be more quant/math based like statistics/option pricing, etc? I had the same reservations about the Risk Management in the name, but my understanding is that you can tailor the course to be more Risk Management or more Financial Engineering- I plan on doing the latter.

Also, respectfully, I’m not sure if it’s fair for one candidate’s bad interview to influence your outlook on all candidates from that course. Again, I don’t know anything about recruiting, but it does seem a little unfair- if there’s something I’m missing, do let me know!

Do you mind if I DM you also, so we could talk 1-1 please?

 

[YZhao]

Do you mind if I DM you also, so we could talk 1-1 please?

Sure. I see now why you apply for that course but I have to say a quant interviews can be very maths heavy. To catch up with people who had a maths background, that is an incredible amount of work.

Where did you study for maths undergrad?

 

[dgpo]

Sure. I see now why you apply for that course but I have to say a quant interviews can be very maths heavy. To catch up with people who had a maths background, that is an incredible amount of work.

Where did you study for maths undergrad?

Yep, I understand they can be maths heavy. I’m planning on using the green book and just generally prepping for quant interviews this summer, and the next. I’ve bought some online courses too to learn stochastic calculus, PDEs, stats/prob and option pricing.

I did Electrical Engineering at a Tier 2 uni (think Warwick, Manchester, Edinburgh, KCL)

 

[Floatingoctopus]

I'm looking for some advice on the following...
I am from top US undergrad, applied maths BA with concentration in operations research and am excited to have an offer from Imperial's MSc RMFE program. Long story short, I didn't realize that there was a distinction between the two programs. However, it seems that the MathFin course has far better career prospects and reputation. I can apply to the MathFin program, but I would need to decline my RMFE offer.
What are my chances of getting into MathFin given my RMFE offer, and is it worth the risk, or will I be able to land trading/quant roles out of RMFE?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Yes, Imperial RMFE is from its business school with 3 times the enrollment of Math Finance program.
Admission to MathFin program is tougher as far as the requirements go. It's more mathematically rigorous and prepares you better for the quant roles.
Are you sure you have to decline the RMFE offer to apply for Math Fin as they are under two different departments?

 

[Floatingoctopus]

Yes, Imperial RMFE is from its business school with 3 times the enrollment of Math Finance program.
Admission to MathFin program is tougher as far as the requirements go. It's more mathematically rigorous and prepares you better for the quant roles.
Are you sure you have to decline the RMFE offer to apply for Math Fin as they are under two different departments?

Yes, I was told by admissions that I would need to give up RMFE for consideration for Math Fin.
My bachelor's degree is in applied math - would this give me a decent shot of Math Fin, given that I was accepted to RMFE?
Or does it not really matter, as in RMFE + applied math bachelor's is good enough for quant roles, especially if I take quantitative modules?