Msc theoretical physics or Msc Financial Mathematics

[iqtbaq]

I am currently doing a bachelor degree on theoretical physics at imperial and thinking about continue to do a Msc of physics or change to Msc of financial Mathematics.

I think it will be better to explain a bit about my background to let you know why I am struggling. I want to be a quant or risk analyst in the future and physics has always been my favourite. I know my physics degree is far not enough for me to get into those positions and so I have self-learnt some basic finance knowledge. I have read books like “Options, Futuresand Other Derivatives “ and also some books written by physicists about how to apply the physics knowledge or skills on the field. However, seems that those self-learnt experience is not convincing to those banks HR. I applied for internship (mainly risk analyst) in several banks and only got one interview invitation. I still got into the final interview but just got rejected few days ago.

So the reason why I want to take a financial maths master is that I think thats the thing I need to show I am really interested in this field and also convince people that I am capable of the position. I talked to few seniors and they think that I should keep on doing a Msc physics because thats what make me different to those majority people and can attract the employers. They think there are too many people crowded into the financial maths aspect and if I put myself into it, it may just make me less competitive.

I know that a decent degree can only give you an interview opportunity, and the rest is about your personality and capability. But now I cant even have an interview chance to show my talent, thats why I feel frustrated about my current subject.
Sorry that the post is a bit long. Any comment or advice will be grateful, especially from a physics graduate.

P.S I am a HKers and apply jobs in Hong Kong, so I also want to know is there anyone have information about the career aspect of quant and risk analyst in Hong Kong?

Once again, Thank you for any input.

 

[Tsotne]

I have always been saying that pure physics background is ideal for quantitative jobs. It may be a subject of argument though. You should take some financial program depending on your needs. You want to be at risks is not enough to choose the program to apply for. Set your specific goals and evaluate your capabilities in a sense that matches the requirements of quantitative finance. For example if you are good in programming, search for MFE programs concentrating on programming. Evaluate some MBAs fitting your needs. Actually there is not a standard answer shich path should be taken. Which subjects are you more interested in? Some schools offer deep stochastic mathematics, others offer different subjects in more detail. How about your programming skills and GPA?

 

[bigbadwolf]

I talked to few seniors and they think that I should keep on doing a Msc physics because thats what make me different to those majority people and can attract the employers. They think there are too many people crowded into the financial maths aspect and if I put myself into it, it may just make me less competitive.

If you get admitted to the Imperial 12-month MSc/DIC in theoretical physics, it would be worth doing. It is a first-rate program and will distinguish you from all the other physics graduates.

 

[TheComplexUnit]

Do the MSc in Financial Mathematics.

Despite a relatively distinguished background in theoretical/foundational physics (two master degrees from Oxford and Cambridge), I have consistently been given the silent treatment upon applying for quant jobs.

Likewise, I can assure you that your degree is worthless if you're contemplating management consultancy.

 

[iqtbaq]

I have always been saying that pure physics background is ideal for quantitative jobs. It may be a subject of argument though. ....

thanks for the reply, I am interested in physics more (thats why I choose to do my bachelor on physics but not maths/finance) but I think I would enjoy doing FM as well. I am applying to a LSE summer course about the FM aspect and hopefully I can get more experience and ideas from it.

I am good at C++ programming and I am confident that I can get a first class honor.

I am interested that why you think a pure physics background is ideal for quantitative jobs? thanks

If you get admitted to the Imperial 12-month MSc/DIC in theoretical physics, it would be worth doing. It is a first-rate program and will distinguish you from all the other physics graduates.

thanks for the suggestion, I know it is worth doing a Msc physics and I did think of finish the MSc physics and join the Msc FM afterwards so that I can get both. But the problem is, I am spending my family's money to study aboard and I really don't want to put too much financial burden on my family.

And the reason why I prefer FM more that Physics is that, in Hong Kong, a pure science( and also pure art) qualification is not that valuable to the employers. People always prefer a graduate from business/finance sector . Also, the name of Imperial is not that renowned in HK compared to Cambridge, Oxford and LSE. So thats why I doubt how much a Msc in physics can help me to land a job as a quant/ risk analyst in HK..

 

[bigbadwolf]

Despite a relatively distinguished background in theoretical/foundational physics (two master degrees from Oxford and Cambridge), I have consistently been given the silent treatment upon applying for quant jobs.

Likewise, I can assure you that your degree is worthless if you're contemplating management consultancy.

How bad is the job market?

 

[Tsotne]

thanks for the reply, I am interested in physics more (thats why I choose to do my bachelor on physics but not maths/finance) but I think I would enjoy doing FM as well. I am applying to a LSE summer course about the FM aspect and hopefully I can get more experience and ideas from it.

I am good at C++ programming and I am confident that I can get a first class honor.

I am interested that why you think a pure physics background is ideal for quantitative jobs? thanks

First, I'm glad you know C++ with all those remaining. It will be a plus.
As for the question about physics background, somebody might say I'm subjective but if you look at the connection of physics and finance you'll see that quantitative finance has by far more connection with physics than with economics. Finance is feeding itself with economic ideas and that's all. But take a look at models borrowed from physics. Even my beloved heat equation for Black Sholes. Where were the economists and statisticians when physicists had been using the degrees of freedom.

Physics can give you much more in quantitative finance than other fields. Nor it is enough alone, but for start you also might deem me subjective but it is not only me saying this: it is ideal start.

 

[iqtbaq]

Do the MSc in Financial Mathematics.

Despite a relatively distinguished background in theoretical/foundational physics (two master degrees from Oxford and Cambridge), I have consistently been given the silent treatment upon applying for quant jobs.

Likewise, I can assure you that your degree is worthless if you're contemplating management consultancy.

thanks for sharing, it really surprises me that a double master from Oxbridge still cant get any response from quant.
Was that during the financial crisis or now still the case?

First, I'm glad you know C++ with all those remaining. It will be a plus.
.....

Thats what I said in the internship interview to the interviewer, about the black Scholes equation and all the relation between physics and financail modelling, but seems that the interviewer was not really impressed by that

Do you have any idea about to what extent my programming skills should up to in order to cope with the FM courses?
Since so far I have only used programming on physics experiment modelling only and I think it may be still not enough?

thank you

 

[Tsotne]

thanks for sharing, it really surprises me that a double master from Oxbridge still cant get any response from quant.
Was that during the financial crisis or now still the case?

Thats what I said in the internship interview to the interviewer, about the black Scholes equation and all the relation between physics and financail modelling, but seems that the interviewer was not really impressed by that

Do you have any idea about to what extent my programming skills should up to in order to cope with the FM courses?
Since so far I have only used programming on physics experiment modelling only and I think it may be still not enough?

thank you

Excel simulation skills, construct numerical modeling applications like interest rate models, volatility models, etc. It'd be very good to try out something like algos. (at least introductory) It really helps switching programming field to finance.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Thats what I said in the internship interview to the interviewer, about the black Scholes equation and all the relation between physics and financail modelling, but seems that the interviewer was not really impressed by that.

Black-Scholes is only a very small part of quant finance. Much more important are skills in statistics, numerical analysis and coding.

Do you have any idea about to what extent my programming skills should up to in order to cope with the FM courses?
Since so far I have only used programming on physics experiment modelling only and I think it may be still not enough?

Strong background in C/C++. Other languages like Python won't do you any harm. Things like MatLab and Excel as icing on the cake. Having done some coding for numerical analysis -- e.g., see the book Numerical Recipes.

Also make sure your math background is upto scratch. I've run across Imperial MSc/DIC students who didn't really have a background in linear algebra and real analysis.

 

[TheComplexUnit]

How bad is the job market?

I would say that it is fairly rotten (although I must admit that my focus by and large has been management consultancy). One thing is to be rejected by BAIN and BCG in connection with their summer internships. Quite another thing is to apply for a part-time position as a statistical analyst in a mediocre consultancy firm and not even get an interview.

Oh well, in a few months I'm heading back to graduate school - far away from the obnoxious business school masturbatory conventionalism of the current job market. Whether I end up doing risk management or foundational quantum field theory is largely a matter of funding now.

 

[bigbadwolf]

I would say that it is fairly rotten (although I must admit that my focus by and large has been management consultancy). One thing is to be rejected by BAIN and BCG in connection with their summer internships. Quite another thing is to apply for a part-time position as a statistical analyst in a mediocre consultancy firm and not even get an interview.

Yes, looks rotten; that's why I was asking. Oxbridge people get first crack at whatever plum jobs are out there and if they're struggling .... Used to be a time when getting a management consulting job wasn't difficult for Oxbridge (2:1 or better); how times have changed.

 

[TheComplexUnit]

Was that during the financial crisis or now still the case?
thank you

Regrettably the latter.

 

[iqtbaq]

Thanks a lot for all those advice. I think I will probably go for a Msc of financial maths.
I am applying to a LSE summer course about topics like mathematical finance. Hopefully I will get more insight from it
( and perhaps also can help little on my application to those top FM course next year. )