COMPARE NYU MSMF vs UCB MFE

[Chad T. Wildman]

Well, THAT'S EXPERIENCE! You're basically saying that an undergrad will have the same kind of opportunities of someone with a phd? From the outside it seems that students at Berkeley have more experience (in academia or work related) and this makes students with less experience (the ones coming straight from undergrad) relatively less valuable. It's not necessarily true that these two categories will compete for the very same kind of positions, but you have to face the fact that you're going to compete with someone with either a phd or 4-5 years of working experience. And this has an effect on their statistics in terms of salaries etc etc! That's why you see those impressive numbers. Even if they show you "first year median salary" for people with "no experience" (and that's the most relevant statistics for the most of us) those numbers are misleading because there are people like you that, hopefully, earn a higher salary at their first job because they have a phd. This is just my consideration and it's definitely true that my opinion on the program is less valuable than yours, because you attended the program and you know what you're talking about.

The OP said nothing about coming from undergrad only so this is not related to the OP's question. It's not uncommon for us to send people with only undergrad to top investment banks in NY (in my year this happened).

 

[DanImp]

The OP said nothing about coming from undergrad only so this is not related to the OP's question. It's not uncommon for us to send people with only undergrad to top investment banks in NY (in my year this happened).

And you're never gonna have The same position of someone with a phd... And you start as an associate, and not an analyst!

 

[Chad T. Wildman]

And you're never gonna have The same position of someone with a phd... And you start as an associate, and not an analyst!

Two young ladies in my class started as associates; neither had a PhD or prior industry experience.

 

[DanImp]

Two young ladies in my class started as associates; neither had a PhD or prior industry experience.

Come in Chad, that's cherry picking. I am sure you know that better than me. Generally that's not the rule, am I wrong? Students at Berkeley have more experience and you can tell that just by looking at the profiles of the current students on their website. And if you have a phd that should be considered as experience and you should have both a more senior position from the beginning and a higher starting salary. Do you think it's not true?

 

[Chad T. Wildman]

Come in Chad, that's cherry picking. I am sure you know that better than me. Generally that's not the rule, am I wrong? Students at Berkeley have more experience and you can tell that just by looking at the profiles of the current students on their website. And if you have a phd that should be considered as experience and you should have both a more senior position from the beginning and a higher starting salary. Do you think it's not true?

I was just providing an example from my class. Hardly cherry picking as folks with only bachelors are present every year and the placement stats are what they are.

You have gotten very far away from the OP's original questions. I will address those directly now and then say no more on the subject.
1. Does being in Berkeley harm your chances of working in the financial industry's? No of course not. it's an MFE. We place everyone in the financial industry with some notable exceptions lately (tech, etc).
2. Wall Street? Yes of course we place on Wall Street. Check out the placement stats on the Berkeley MFE website. They break it out by location.

To the OP: what you are being told by people here is that you have a disadvantage relative to your classmates if you have less experience. I just don't think that is necessarily true. People that treat these programs as "buying a job" might be at a disadvantage if they are in this situation. But anyone who comes to the program ready to work hard and puts in the effort and excels will not be.

 

[matt_]

Being surrounded by more experienced classmates is actually a good thing because you will learn a lot from them as well as professors.

But, it is also true that the placement stats by Berkeley are more or less boosted by the amount of experience they already have before MFE. Thus, for example, if you are not as experienced as others, you should expect a lower starting salary than you see on their website. It is just as simple as that.

 

[YangXu]

Hi everyone! I've recently been admitted by these two programs. I eagerly hope to know some opinions here.

I've found some pros and cons for both program.

NYU Mathfin:
Pros:
1. NY
2. Rigorous courses, recognized by the Street

Cons:
1. Despite employment rate, the quality of employment seems to go downward
2. Too much maths, I have doubt whether I can get through all of it

UCB MFE:
Pros:
1. Strong career service (btw the 65% rate mentioned in the review, is it true?)
2. Up-to-date course (like ML and other)

Cons:
1. Open on March, a little odd

Any suggestions are welcomed!

 

[Michsund]

Hi everyone! I've recently been admitted by these two programs. I eagerly hope to know some opinions here.

I've found some pros and cons for both program.

NYU Mathfin:
Pros:
1. NY
2. Rigorous courses, recognized by the Street

Cons:
1. Despite employment rate, the quality of employment seems to go downward
2. Too much maths, I have doubt whether I can get through all of it

UCB MFE:
Pros:
1. Strong career service (btw the 65% rate mentioned in the review, is it true?)
2. Up-to-date course (like ML and other)

Cons:
1. Open on March, a little odd

Any suggestions are welcomed!

Did you decide? I think I would go to UCB.

 

[YangXu]

Did you decide? I think I would go to UCB.

Yeah I've decided to go to UCB

 

[nmbrcrnch]

IMO, NYU MathFin is the gold standard and UCB career placement has deteriorated in the past couple years. The UCB cohort is getting larger (79 students in 2019 to 93 students in 2020) and being located on the west coast is not an advantage. Many of the 2019 UCB grads are still looking for work. Better to be in NYC and develop your own network! So much easier to arrange coffee meetups and interviews.

 

[evolutioner]

Agree with study with experienced classmates, at least you know more about practical industry, not only academics.

 

[bootstrap]

Dear friends, may I please ask for your advice on this?

I previously got an offer from NYU Courant but got waitlisted by UCB.

I have recently been taken off the waitlist of UCB, which honestly has always been the one that I prefer.

I don't want to be blinded by my own bias. That's why I would love to hear your opinion on this. Which would you choose and why?

A million thanks!

 

[bootstrap]

Hi guys .. for those of you who have voted, would you mind sharing the reason behind your choice? Thanks!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Do read the reviews on those programs so you can get the latest insight. UCB has a few recent reviews.

 

[joe_boy]

The UCB program would probably give you access to a wider variety of job opportunities both in tech and quant Finance due to its proximity to Silicon Valley. It seems many graduates also now go to data science roles. The market is tough, might be better to have other options apart from just Quant Finance! You can check LinkedIn for analysis. I actually think many people underuse that platform.

Some things to note though. Personally, I am not very comfortable with UCB's program being just 1yr. Some might like it but I'd love to have more time to thoroughly study..

Secondly, UCB's program is in the business school, dont really know if that helps one's chances of getting into a good Ph.D. program in the future. Many students do MFE to work not to continue towards a PhD,, but it is still worth considering.

Apart from those two things that give NYU an advantage imo, NYU Courant is well known for mathematical rigor (one of the best in the world). NYU is also in New York (which is very good if living expenses is not an issue). NY Courant has a smaller class size too. If you work hard, you will have very good opportunities to work with Professors, publish papers, these things can be helpful esp. if you want to work in Quant Research or do a PhD (could be in Fin Eng, Machine Learning, or related field) in future.

You might want to check whether you enjoy proofs, real analysis, and pure maths though...if you don't, probably better to go to UCB 'cos of grades. No point going to a good school if you don't get good grades.

Both are great programs nonetheless. I understand UCB is higher ranked on this platform but consider the things I mentioned before you make a choice.

Wish you the best.

 

[bootstrap]

The UCB program would probably give you access to a wider variety of job opportunities both in tech and quant Finance due to its proximity to Silicon Valley. It seems many graduates also now go to data science roles. The market is tough, might be better to have other options apart from just Quant Finance! You can check LinkedIn for analysis. I actually think many people underuse that platform.

Some things to note though. Personally, I am not very comfortable with UCB's program being just 1yr. Some might like it but I'd love to have more time to thoroughly study..

Secondly, UCB's program is in the business school, dont really know if that helps one's chances of getting into a good Ph.D. program in the future. Many students do MFE to work not to continue towards a PhD,, but it is still worth considering.

Apart from those two things that give NYU an advantage imo, NYU Courant is well known for mathematical rigor (one of the best in the world). NYU is also in New York (which is very good if living expenses is not an issue). NY Courant has a smaller class size too. If you work hard, you will have very good opportunities to work with Professors, publish papers, these things can be helpful esp. if you want to work in Quant Research or do a PhD (could be in Fin Eng, Machine Learning, or related field) in future.

You might want to check whether you enjoy proofs, real analysis, and pure maths though...if you don't, probably better to go to UCB 'cos of grades. No point going to a good school if you don't get good grades.

Both are great programs nonetheless. I understand UCB is higher ranked on this platform but consider the things I mentioned before you make a choice.

Wish you the best.

Thank you very much for your detailed response! Really appreciate it!

I agree that Courant is one of the best places in the world to do applied maths, and that its curriculum is probably among the most theoretically rigorous.

That said, I am a mature student looking for a career change into quant finance. My utmost priority is to look for a job. In terms of career services and access to job opportunities, I do feel that Berkeley among the best, if not the best, across all MFE programs.

I did a masters in statistics at a solid university some 10 years ago. Ploughing through Folland and Durret was both a humbling and enjoyable experience. But I have to say, I feel that the knowledge you pick up in these rigorous math courses are very rarely being drawn upon when working in the industry. Great prep for PhD studies in any STEM field though.

Overall, I think I agree with what you have said. But from a personal perspective, I am now myopically focused on securing a job as an international student. And for people with that singular goal, I feel that Berkeley might be the better choice?

 

[bootstrap]

Do read the reviews on those programs so you can get the latest insight. UCB has a few recent reviews.

Thanks Andy! I have managed to speak with a few alumns of UCB recently. I think I have a rough idea of what the program is like. That said, I am also aware that their opinions might not be entirely impartial.

On the other hand, Courant still remains perplexingly mysterious.

 

[Paul Lopez]

Admittedly biased as a courant alum myself. If you want to work in finance, you can't beat ny, and chicago, miami, and boston are close enough. You are also studying in the math department, which makes the program definitely more on the rigorous side compared to some other programs that might be in the business school of the university. It really is about what you want to do. Also remember living in ny is quite expensive, probably only comparing to san fran in high cost of living. If you want to work in data science or have a different work culture/quality of life, then the west coast could very well be a good option for you. I imagine if you are good, you'll be able to get roles you want, even with the tough competition.

 

[lalabobo]

Hi, may I ask you when did you get off of the waitlist, have you had any interviews after getting waitlist?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

On the other hand, Courant still remains perplexingly mysterious.

Very aware of it. I reached out to many Courant grads to see if they can review the program with us and share their experience.
No bite yet. It's a mystery why we got no review since 2014.