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Any extra input on Waterloo MQF?

Joined
2/19/14
Messages
9
Points
11
I've noticed that there's a lack of information surrounding the program offered at the University of Waterloo. In particular, I haven't seen any students or grads review or even talk about the program. Consider this a call to the more knowledgeable: tell us what you can about the program! Personal experience is even better.
 
I only know this program is the 1st FE in Canada. The placement is very good and small-size class setting. I have ever saw a comparison bet. MMF and MQF, you can good it. It's a pretty extensive thread.
 
I know about that thread. My issue with it however is that no one from MQF actually talked about their experience during/after the program.
 
I visited their facilities last week and it was really nice. The program is much more theoretical than MMF. The students I spoke to said almost everyone's found an internship, with maybe one student still looking. It seemed that the students are extremely happy with the program. I accepted my offer last week as I decided it was the best fit for me.
 
You can find some current MQF students or MQF alumni on linkedin and shoot them an email. I have talked to 3 of them and they were extremely helpful and friendly.
 
I visited their facilities last week and it was really nice. The program is much more theoretical than MMF. The students I spoke to said almost everyone's found an internship, with maybe one student still looking. It seemed that the students are extremely happy with the program. I accepted my offer last week as I decided it was the best fit for me.
I'm going to accept the offer tomorrow. Glad to see a future classmate here!
 
Thanks for the advice kamikade. In fact, I've already contacted one. I'd just like to see some more discussion of the program here.

I visited their facilities last week and it was really nice. The program is much more theoretical than MMF. The students I spoke to said almost everyone's found an internship, with maybe one student still looking. It seemed that the students are extremely happy with the program. I accepted my offer last week as I decided it was the best fit for me.

How did you arrange a visit? Did you only get the opportunity after you were admitted?
 
Thanks for the advice kamikade. In fact, I've already contacted one. I'd just like to see some more discussion of the program here.



How did you arrange a visit? Did you only get the opportunity after you were admitted?

I asked Mary after I got my offer, and one of the students showed me around.
 
Nice to see the future classmates! I also accepted the offer online last week (and it says Intention to Matriculate now). I took my undergrad in UWaterloo and currently working in Toronto.
 
very mathematically-based, covered extensively on measure theory, extension of its undergraduate program (which is mathematical finance). used to include functional analysis, not sure bout now. Technically, if you do not have a background in pure math, it could be challenging with terms throwing around, gotta do your homework i suppose; however, with that being said, they do have open book examinations =o.
Placement is pretty high, small class and everything. mostly statistical modelling, programming, quant in Toronto, some peeps went on to do actuarial science. brand new building, lucky you!
also covered extensively on modelling, var, stochastic, regression, black-scholes mainly on fixed income, interest rate securities, not much foreign exchange if you are into that sort of thing. heard/learned a thing or two.
While you are at it, take a look at their combinatorics courses, some are undergrad, but it WILL help you in the long run if you want to try to get in the big names like goldman, and jp morgan. a lot of the interview questions could cover those. and sit in the pmath courses in the summer, get you up to speed, ask the instructor they should be okay with it (measure and integration, lebesgue integration and fourier analysis and such).
I m not in the master program, but was in the undergraduate version of this program a lot of courses crosslisted, too bad my gpa wasn't high enough. very diverse group, couple guys i know had good standings in Putnam, while I heard one girl had no background in mathematics, struggled to get past the first term, but that coulda been either before they implemented the entrance test or the proctor test, where you know .. you can get help.

Anyways, know where you are headed, if its Toronto, accept it. the school has strong connections to the fixed income desk in bay street as I am told.
US? think about it, the school has a solid policy on keeping the average scores to a certain level, it is a terminal program after all. Think of it as applying to graduate school again, they might not come in handy when you are applying to banks without knowledge of your curriculum. no standardized comparison, numerical results won't work to your advantage. lessons that I learned lol

on a side note, Cheap, cheap, I MEAN cheap program compared to other big names. quality is there but the city is just agonizing...housing and food around the campus are just shitty and thats an understatement, but hey its only one year + intern somewhere (or research paper if i remember correctly). don't focus on those things, its only one year, tough it out, and you will be fine! plus Toronto is only one hour drive.

oh one more thing, dont ask coordinators for info.. they are most likely vague and general, get in contact with profs. my undergrad coordinator had no idea what pmath does in finance when i asked him 5 years ago...

extra and specific enough for ya?
cheers
 
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Can I @ tiaotiao chen? I just set up a QQ group. The group number is 370750516. Hope others can see this post too.
Nice to see the future classmates! I also accepted the offer online last week (and it says Intention to Matriculate now). I took my undergrad in UWaterloo and currently working in Toronto.
 
Although I won't be there until September 2014, I still want to share some information I've heard about and what I think about this program.
Advantages:
1. UW MQF has cheap tuition, a high placement, a good reputation on Bay Street.
The tuition in Spring 2013 is CAD 3713 per term * 3 terms, nearly CAD 12000 including incidentals. And you can take an internship in the third term to earn CAD 16000-20000. On Bay Street, both UT MMF and UW MQF have good reputations and alumus network. Most of the graduates work at the Big 5 banks of Canada and some pension plans. Once you enter either of these two programs, you are almost guaranteed a job in Canada. By the way, the tuition of UT MMF is CAD 42000.

2. The courses at MQF are very difficult and theoretical. The more you suffer today, the more you get in the future, right?
Graduate level courses such as probability theory, statistical inference as well as the advanced topics of stochastic calculus are taught here. And even you should write a master's research paper. Well, I should say that it is a double-edge. People want to learn what the industry need. They want to learn the things like portfolio optimization but regard convex optimization as a waste of time. To my point of view, one should learn the things that the company won't teach you, and the theoretical knowledge can help you better understand the models. In 2013, MQF enrolled 7 PhDs, 9 masters and 5 bachelors. Maybe they think the higher degree you've gotten, the more easily would you understand the advanced mathematics. In addition, because of the difficult courses and the research paper, you can enter an PhD program much easier compared with the programs who aim at industry. (One of the assistant professor in NY cityU is an alumni of MQF).

3. It is easy to get a working permit in Canada.
I've heard a lot complaints from my friends who study in the US. International students are always worried about the visa issues(I don't know much about it. Is it called H1B?). Working permit is easy in Canada and you can even expect to get the permanent residence in one or two years in Ontario since you will have gotten a master degree in Canada.

Some disadvantages:
1. Fewer opportunities in Canada than in the US. If you goal is to enter GS, MS or Bridgewater, etc in the US, then try the programs at NYU, CMU, Princeton or the other top universities. Just ask yourself what you want and evaluate yourself what you can get. For me, if I cannot enter the top MFE programs in the US, I prefer the top MFE programs in Canada rather than the 2nd tier programs in the US. Like I said, just evaluate yourself what is the possibility can you enter what program and get what jobs after graduation. And compare the choices by your "utility" preference in the "feasible set".

2. Not well-known. I think UW MQF deserves a better reputation all around the world. UT MMF and UW MQF are both top programs in Canada. Their graduates are highly demand on Bay Street. I don't which is No. 1 which is No.2 but they must be at the same level. There are over 500 applicants for UT MMF while only round 180 applicants for UW MQF. Most of the applicants for UW MQF are Canadian students(including oversea students) and the ones determined to go to Canada for further study, and usually they apply both UW MQF and UT MMF. As UT MMF ranked 12 at Quantnet, people tend to apply for some US programs plus UT MMF. But they don't know there EXISTS a program called Master of Quantitative Finance at University of Waterloo that is as good as UT MMF.

3. Still about the courses. As I am still not a MQF student yet, this is just what I consider but not the truth.
I found the courses' codes start with STAT(statistics) and ACTSC(actuarial science). I just doubt how much practical knowledge and empirical study that the students have. And do they have time to follow the financial markets. I know there are many workshops such as programming training, company visiting and even business writing. And as there are only around 15-20 people, I believe the training is in high quality. There is an office with Bloomberg terminals(I don't know how many) for the MQF students to study in. (Well, because they have to stay up late at night to complete the assignments and prepare for regular tests). More details will be released after I've been there.
Well, anyway, Bay Street loves MQF. Don't be afraid.

Below is some information about the application process.

1. The DDL of MQF is often 15 Jan every year. Some tips:
  • -GRE and GMAT are not required(And they stand it out).
  • -3 REF letters
  • -Supplementary documents
  • 1. List the courses you've taken that are relevant to quantitative finance(Typical subject areas: finance, mathematics, statistics, probability, economics, and computing.)
  • 2. Working experience in financial area.
  • 3. List the programming languages you know and the levels you are.
  • 4. Show your leadership skills.(lol...........)
  • 5. Personal statement (just half a page)
2. At the end of Jan., they will inform the short listed students to take the entrance test. (That's good, most of the candidates got rejection just after half a month. You don't have to wait for the uncertainties if you are not the one they want.)
Entrance test(In the middle of Feb.) :
  • -20 multiple choice questions and 4 short answer questions.
  • -They have a recommended book list for the test. You can buy and read them.
  • -Mathematical analysis(set theory, limitation, series, etc.)
  • e.g. Given a f(x), figure out the continuity or discontinuity of the function.
  • -probability, stochastic process and mathematical statistics(the questions could be difficult in this part)
  • e.g. Simple one: Given the probability function, what is the equation of the Var and moment generating function.
  • e.g. Difficult one: N points are uniformly distributed on a circle and constitute a polygon, what is the probability that the center of the circle is in the polygon?
  • -finance(some concepts about mathematical finance, such as put-call parity, derivatives, bid-ask, interest rate, etc)
  • e.g. Given call price, strike price, stock price, interest rate, expiration, etc. What is the put price?
  • e.g. Use binomial tree method to price an American option.
  • -calculus and linear algebra(I know you all have learnt these courses, just practice to make sure you can calculate)
  • e.g. .....Just calculation.
  • -All baby questions, but few have learnt all of concepts.
  • - (The above examples are not real test questions).

3. Interview will be in the next two weeks of entrance test. I heard all the shortlisted candidates got the interview.
  • - The interview will be on campus or on the phone depending on your location.
  • - MQF will give you a interview advice.pdf for your preparation.
  • - Behavior questions include self introduction, career goal, why quantitative finance, why UW MQF etc.
  • - Technical questions are like those in entrance test. But I think they just care about whether you know the concept they ask. They don't want to wait and watch you for a long time just to hear an answer they know.
  • - In my eyes, they have already gotten an idea of what kind of people you are through your application and your entrance test. The interview is aiming to test:
  • - Your skill of expression. Especially those who are not native English speakers.
  • - Something the entrance test won't test. Like your research experience and working experience. And some concepts in a typical major such as pure math(What is Hilbert spaces?) or physics(can you solve PDEs?).
  • - Your level of the skills and knowledge you claimed.
  • e.g. You seems to be good at programming. OK, then what is a virtual function in C++?
  • e.g. What is put-call parity? Can you prove it? What if the stock has continuous dividends? What if the underlying asset is foreign currency. You know, to test your level of this concept until you fail to answer.
  • - (The above examples are not real test questions).

4. MQF is very efficient. I like the way they admit students.
  • Jan 15 Application DDL
  • Jan 31 Short list for entrance test.
  • Feb 12 Entrance test
  • Feb 14 Interview arrangement
  • Feb 17-28 Phone interview. (Some unlucky guy was told to interview on Mar 6)
  • Mar 4 AD
  • Mar 6 Rejection or waiting list information

Well, if you know value investment, then you can regard that UW MQF is the stock at a price that is much lower than its instinct value. I hope the other MQFers to help promote this program at Quantnet to let more people know about it. Maybe this is another Baruch in Canada.
 
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Hi! I guess you are also Chinese. I just set up a QQ group. The group number is 370750516.
Sorry, I don't have QQ. But still glad to hear from you.
Frankly you made me feel a little shame for myself, I chose MQF just because it's close to my home besides its high placement.
 
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Sorry, I don't have QQ. But still glad to hear from you.
Frankly I feel a little shame for myself, I chose MQF just because it's close to my home besides its high placement.
Well, then you break many's hearts.... You beat the others so easily
 
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Although I won't be there until September 2014, I still want to share some information I've heard about and what I think about this program.
Advantages:
1. UW MQF has cheap tuition, a high placement, a good reputation on Bay Street.
The tuition in Spring 2013 is CAD 3713 per term * 3 terms, nearly CAD 12000 including incidentals. And you can take an internship in the third term to earn CAD 16000-20000. On Bay Street, both UT MMF and UW MQF have good reputations and alumus network. Most of the graduates work at the Big 5 banks of Canada and some pension plans. Once you enter either of these two programs, you are almost guaranteed a job in Canada. By the way, the tuition of UT MMF is CAD 42000.

2. The courses at MQF are very difficult and theoretical. The more you suffer today, the more you get in the future, right?
Graduate level courses such as probability theory, statistical inference as well as the advanced topics of stochastic calculus are taught here. And even you should write a master's research paper. Well, I should say that it is a double-edge. People want to learn what the industry need. They want to learn the things like portfolio optimization but regard convex optimization as a waste of time. To my point of view, one should learn the things that the company won't teach you, and the theoretical knowledge can help you better understand the models. In 2013, MQF enrolled 7 PhDs, 9 masters and 5 bachelors. Maybe they think the higher degree you've gotten, the more easily would you understand the advanced mathematics. In addition, because of the difficult courses and the research paper, you can enter an PhD program much easier compared with the programs who aim at industry. (One of the assistant professor in NY cityU is an alumni of MQF).

3. It is easy to get a working permit in Canada.
I've heard a lot complaints from my friends who study in the US. International students are always worried about the visa issues(I don't know much about it. Is it called H1B?). Working permit is easy in Canada and you can even expect to get the permanent residence in one or two years in Ontario since you will have gotten a master degree in Canada.

Some disadvantages:
1. Fewer opportunities in Canada than in the US. If you goal is to enter GS, MS or Bridgewater, etc in the US, then try the programs at NYU, CMU, Princeton or the other top universities. Just ask yourself what you want and evaluate yourself what you can get. For me, if I cannot enter the top MFE programs in the US, I prefer the top MFE programs in Canada rather than the 2nd tier programs in the US. Like I said, just evaluate yourself what is the possibility can you enter what program and get what jobs after graduation. And compare the choices by your "utility" preference in the "feasible set".

2. Not well-known. I think UW MQF deserves a better reputation all around the world. UT MMF and UW MQF are both top programs in Canada. Their graduates are highly demand on Bay Street. I don't which is No. 1 which is No.2 but they must be at the same level. There are over 500 applicants for UT MMF while only round 180 applicants for UW MQF. Most of the applicants for UW MQF are Canadian students(including oversea students) and the ones determined to go to Canada for further study, and usually they apply both UW MQF and UT MMF. As UT MMF ranked 12 at Quantnet, people tend to apply for some US programs plus UT MMF. But they don't know there EXISTS a program called Master of Quantitative Finance at University of Waterloo that is as good as UT MMF.

3. Still about the courses. As I am still not a MQF student yet, this is just what I consider but not the truth.
I found the courses' codes start with STAT(statistics) and ACTSC(actuarial science). I just doubt how much practical knowledge and empirical study that the students have. And do they have time to follow the financial markets. I know there are many workshops such as programming training, company visiting and even business writing. And as there are only around 15-20 people, I believe the training is in high quality. There is an office with Bloomberg terminals(I don't know how many) for the MQF students to study in. (Well, because they have to stay up late at night to complete the assignments and prepare for regular tests). More details will be released after I've been there.
Well, anyway, Bay Street loves MQF. Don't be afraid.

Below is some information about the application process.

1. The DDL of MQF is often 15 Jan every year. Some tips:
  • -GRE and GMAT are not required(And they stand it out).
  • -3 REF letters
  • -Supplementary documents
  • 1. List the courses you've taken that are relevant to quantitative finance(Typical subject areas: finance, mathematics, statistics, probability, economics, and computing.)
  • 2. Working experience in financial area.
  • 3. List the programming languages you know and the levels you are.
  • 4. Show your leadership skills.(lol...........)
  • 5. Personal statement (just half a page)
2. At the end of Jan., they will inform the short listed students to take the entrance test. (That's good, most of the candidates got rejection just after half a month. You don't have to wait for the uncertainties if you are not the one they want.)
Entrance test(In the middle of Feb.) :
  • -20 multiple choice questions and 4 short answer questions.
  • -They have a recommended book list for the test. You can buy and read them.
  • -Mathematical analysis(set theory, limitation, series, etc.)
  • e.g. Given a f(x), figure out the continuity or discontinuity of the function.
  • -probability, stochastic process and mathematical statistics(the questions could be difficult in this part)
  • e.g. Simple one: Given the probability function, what is the equation of the Var and moment generating function.
  • e.g. Difficult one: N points are uniformly distributed on a circle and constitute a polygon, what is the probability that the center of the circle is in the polygon?
  • -finance(some concepts about mathematical finance, such as put-call parity, derivatives, bid-ask, interest rate, etc)
  • e.g. Given call price, strike price, stock price, interest rate, expiration, etc. What is the put price?
  • e.g. Use binomial tree method to price an American option.
  • -calculus and linear algebra(I know you all have learnt these courses, just practice to make sure you can calculate)
  • e.g. .....Just calculation.
  • -All baby questions, but few have learnt all of concepts.
  • - (The above examples are not real test questions).

3. Interview will be in the next two weeks of entrance test. I heard all the shortlisted candidates got the interview.
  • - The interview will be on campus or on the phone depending on your location.
  • - MQF will give you a interview advice.pdf for your preparation.
  • - Behavior questions include self introduction, career goal, why quantitative finance, why UW MQF etc.
  • - Technical questions are like those in entrance test. But I think they just care about whether you know the concept they ask. They don't want to wait and watch you for a long time just to hear an answer they know.
  • - In my eyes, they have already gotten an idea of what kind of people you are through your application and your entrance test. The interview is aiming to test:
  • - Your skill of expression. Especially those who are not native English speakers.
  • - Something the entrance test won't test. Like your research experience and working experience. And some concepts in a typical major such as pure math(What is Hilbert spaces?) or physics(can you solve PDEs?).
  • - Your level of the skills and knowledge you claimed.
  • e.g. You seems to be good at programming. OK, then what is a virtual function in C++?
  • e.g. What is put-call parity? Can you prove it? What if the stock has continuous dividends? What if the underlying asset is foreign currency. You know, to test your level of this concept until you fail to answer.
  • - (The above examples are not real test questions).

4. MQF is very efficient. I like the way they admit students.
  • Jan 15 Application DDL
  • Jan 31 Short list for entrance test.
  • Feb 12 Entrance test
  • Feb 14 Interview arrangement
  • Feb 17-28 Phone interview. (Some unlucky guy was told to interview on Mar 6)
  • Mar 4 AD
  • Mar 6 Rejection or waiting list information

Well, if you know value investment, then you can regard that UW MQF is the stock at a price that is much lower than its instinct value. I hope the other MQFers to help promote this program at Quantnet to let more people know about it. Maybe this is another Baruch in Canada.

Regarding UT vs Waterloo comparison, Waterloo offers a Bachelor of Mathematics, Mathematical Finance, covering almost entire curriculum of UT MMF. it was designed to replicate the master program. but then again MathFin program isn't designed for you to get adequately high GPA and apply for grad school, overlapping materials.

Now getting back to Waterloo, I suppose in a sense, such grade-centric admission method works to a certain extent. Reference and personal statement don't matter much in the application. Strictly technical, one way street, no intangibles involved. Entrance proctor test, some people tend to leak through, as you can use the internet looking for help if you decide not to write at Waterloo. As I indicated, personal qualities and other intangibles are not valued as much (almost weight nothing). Maturity still a question mark, had couple of friends graduating from MQF and still clueless where to start. Able to get jobs? yes. Long term goals? no freaking clue. If you have couple years of working experience and career path planed out, it is a excellent program both academically and financially; however, with that being said, if you are a student straight out of college, you better make your plans now or its gonna be too late, it is a one year program after all.

With regards to bay street, yes they love you because compared to other schools and MBA, students coming out of Waterloo are very technical oriented. The degree is only going to get you so far, to climb up the ladder, you are going to need more professional network and experience, and almost certainly, a non technical mindset. When I talked to the head of RBC fixed income trading, they want a technical guy only for the quant/programming job. If you are applying to other positions closer to front office, you are gonna get the subconscientious double standards. You are going to need to prove yourself through other means, personal charm and excellent references from previous desk supervisor. Same mentality applies to US companies.

Again, excellent and proven program, however, they still got couple things to work on imho.
 
Regarding UT vs Waterloo comparison, Waterloo offers a Bachelor of Mathematics, Mathematical Finance, covering almost entire curriculum of UT MMF. it was designed to replicate the master program. but then again MathFin program isn't designed for you to get adequately high GPA and apply for grad school, overlapping materials.
....
Thanks for your information, Yang, it helps me a lot.
Well, I just regard the program as a key to the banks' doors. I still know nothing about how to improve the "soft" skills to be successful in the financial career.
In your first reply, you suggested to work hard to build a solid technical background---not only financial mathematics but also useful courses such as combinatorics, programming, etc.
In your second reply, you said technical guys are needed only for quant/programming jobs. People need to be stronger in non-technical mindsets to get closer to front office.
Do you think there must be trade-offs between "soft" and "hard" skills? If so, how to balance these two aspects.
I think it is not a problem for those in Waterloo, but for most of the people in this forum.
 
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