COMPARE CMU MSCF (NYC) vs. Columbia MFE

[fe app]

Now that I've finally gotten into Columbia, I need to start deciding where I'm going to go. The issue is with these two schools, ranked number 1 & 2, respectively, is which is going to be better in the long run.

My background is a small name undergrad in NYC and 3 yrs work exp not in valuations and fundamental finance. I'm hoping to break into either a hedge fund or asset management role as a quant analyst.

Wondering if people can share thoughts and knowledge regarding each ones pros/cons in reference to the following points or any others you can think of:

• Classes/Curriculum
  • Is the push in computers at CMU much better or is the semi-open curriculum at Columbia better for people who don't necessarily want to be high freq-traders
• Recruiting and campus networking
  • this is probably the most important for me, b/c I feel that like an MBA, I'm shelling out a ton of money for connections/alumni/school name)
• Brand recognition
  • while I know that CMU is huge in the quant space here and it is a well-known school, how far does it reach in the fin eng industry and how well does the namebrand go in the finance world. For Columbia, everyone knows it/ivy league so will that push a little further into finance.

Those are the big ones for me, but feel free to add your own points and thoughts.
Hope people from the other CMU/Columbia threads don't mind if I tag you: @Jedison @natalia.ochoa.a @Claudia P

 

[IntoDarkness]

well, one of the directors on the floor at my place only hires cmu mscf grads... cuz they r good

 

[fe app]

well, one of the directors on the floor at my place only hires cmu mscf grads... cuz they r good

out of any of the responses i thought i might get, thats by far going to be one of the most helpful. may i ask what kind of group ur in?

 

[moretodo]

well, one of the directors on the floor at my place only hires cmu mscf grads... cuz they r good

If this is indeed true, I'm sorry to say but your director is a bit too narrow minded. I guess if you want to re-join your group, this is a no brainer.

You would think for someone who is so successful and well educated, such shallow preconceived biases wouldn't exist but I dont blame him! I believe its human tendency and perception is unfortunately everything.

 

[IntoDarkness]

recruiting is a bitch. we still have some positions wide open for over 1 year. if the hiring manager knows some program consistently churns out high quality candidates (they always perform well at work compared to kids from other competing programs), its a no brainer to keep going back for more with less hassle.

 

[moretodo]

recruiting is a bitch. we still have some positions wide open for over 1 year. if the hiring manager knows some program consistently churns out high quality candidates (they always perform well at work compared to kids from other competing programs), its a no brainer to keep going back for more with less hassle.

I have a really smart colleague going to UCB and a senior from high school who isnt great going to CMU MSCF this year so Im not sure if CMU is the only good program out there.

Princeton, UCB and CMU are all pretty good in my opinion. I dont know much about Columbia personally.

 

[IntoDarkness]

no1 says cmu is the ONLY good program out there.

 

[moretodo]

no1 says cmu is the ONLY good program out there.

ask your hiring manager and let me know ?!! lol..

 

[GoIllini]

This is a case of whether you are aiming more for HFT vs. traditional quant roles.

Columbia's strength is Math; CMU's is CS.

This is a tough decision.

In terms of branding, I think Columbia can help a bit more if you are working with a bunch of Ivy Leaguers. Smart people who count in hiring decisions know CMU ranks next to Stanford and MIT as an engineering school. Many dumb bankers with liberal arts backgrounds think it's a Western Pennsylvania version of Lehigh.

Columbia will help more on that front. If you care. (I used to claim I didn't care everyone in NYC thought UIUC was a provincial state school campus but to be honest it was mildly annoying.)

HFT: CMU
Work at an investment bank, not a coding role: Columbia

 

[fe app]

This is a case of whether you are aiming more for HFT vs. traditional quant roles.

Columbia's strength is Math; CMU's is CS.

This is a tough decision.

When u say traditional do u mean Strat, resraech, and trading ie in ibanks?

Also being a math major and not comp sci can't decide whether it would be better to go with the one that is stronger in the area I know less of.

 

[GoIllini]

When u say traditional do u mean Strat, resraech, and trading ie in ibanks?

Also being a math major and not comp sci can't decide whether it would be better to go with the one that is stronger in the area I know less of.

So I know this is difficult, but do you want to work at a small firm where you have trading responsibilities and code for a living, or do you want to work for a bank where you support or advise traders or clients on strategies?

I see CMU augmenting your existing skills better, but I see Columbia helping you fit in a bit more in a lot more groups at a major NYC bank.

Both are great schools and as you can see I think the decision now is getting very nuanced. Other factors like the length and cost of the program should also be coming into consideration. Columbia has a better name in general finance for less informed money (bankers and bank broker dealers); CMU has the stronger program, and the prop shops, hedge funds, and HFT firms get that.

If you did your undergrad at an Ivy, Columbia helps you less.

 

[fe app]

So I know this is difficult, but do you want to work at a small firm where you have trading responsibilities and code for a living, or do you want to work for a bank where you support or advise traders or clients on strategies?

I see CMU augmenting your existing skills better, but I see Columbia helping you fit in a bit more in a lot more groups at a major NYC bank.

Both are great schools and as you can see I think the decision now is getting very nuanced. Other factors like the length and cost of the program should also be coming into consideration. Columbia has a better name in general finance for less informed money (bankers and bank broker dealers); CMU has the stronger program, and the prop shops, hedge funds, and HFT firms get that.

If you did your undergrad at an Ivy, Columbia helps you less.

While everyone always says no what u want, at the end of the day I'd rather go to hft. Now I've recently heard rumors that this might be a really bad move as I'll just end up being some PhD's coding bitch. That's not what I wanna do but if I'll actually be involved at some pt in more than just coding someone else's strategies than I can take the grunt work for a while.

I have a friend who's doing the ibank side and really enjoys it. He went to cmu btw.

I like ur pt about the ivy league BC as we all know people in finance love that CU name. That's why I'm wondering about the cmu name and how well people recognize it on the street

 

[Jedison]

In terms of these programs I don't think you can really go wrong. Honestly, I don't think that there will probably be a huge difference in your education from either. From what I've seen all the programs are pretty similar. Stochastic calc, quant risk management, monte carlo simulation... this will be part of any mfe/comp fin curriculum. I really can't speak too much regarding CMU because I don't know a whole lot about them. I can tell you personally that I would have chosen Columbia if I were in your shoes because the televised classes was a major turn off to me. Both schools have fantastic alumni networks, industry contacts, and employment reports. So in terms of getting a job any difference is probably negligible. I don't know a ton about CMU's curriculum but I liked Columbia's because it offered a fair amount of specialization. Not sure how CMU stacks up in that regard. Also one major factor is that I will be at Columbia next year. I'm a really cool guy, and handsome too. Just something to consider.

 

[fe app]

some good pts. i had thought about the televised classes and while not the worst, when compared to sitting in a true classroom on the columbia campus, it isnt optimal.

in teerms of specialization, at cmu the curriculum is set in stone (except for the last mini semester, where its pick 4/5 courses from the list). when doing research and my interview that with columbai that was one of the things i liked most.

 

[Math Andrew]

you won't get any HFT job doing a master in financial engineering, no matter what program.
Computer science kids get those roles.

Concerning the two programs, I think they are both good from what I've heard.
I've just graduated from the MSCF and I'm pretty happy about it.

 

[fe app]

Thanks for info. I've heard similar things over the past week. I'm not really looking to get into hft role and program the rest of my life.

 

[QuantOutcry]

In terms of these programs I don't think you can really go wrong. Honestly, I don't think that there will probably be a huge difference in your education from either. From what I've seen all the programs are pretty similar. Stochastic calc, quant risk management, monte carlo simulation... this will be part of any mfe/comp fin curriculum. I really can't speak too much regarding CMU because I don't know a whole lot about them. I can tell you personally that I would have chosen Columbia if I were in your shoes because the televised classes was a major turn off to me. Both schools have fantastic alumni networks, industry contacts, and employment reports. So in terms of getting a job any difference is probably negligible. I don't know a ton about CMU's curriculum but I liked Columbia's because it offered a fair amount of specialization. Not sure how CMU stacks up in that regard. Also one major factor is that I will be at Columbia next year. I'm a really cool guy, and handsome too. Just something to consider.

Do you know much about the concentrations in Columbia?
What's the difference between computational finance/trading systems vs computation programming?
BTW, I don't like remote teaching either.

 

[Jedison]

The difference is in the courses you take. Computational finance and trading systems is focused more on scientific computing and algo trading whereas the programming track focuses on coding skills, mostly C++ I believe. You can see outlines for each track on the website.

 

[fe app]

btw decided to go with columbia in the end
@Jedison u gonna be there?

 

[Jedison]

I will! Congrats that's awesome. What concentration are you thinking of doing?