Does Brand Name Matter?

[Ian Robinson]

Hi QuantNet! I'm a fourth year domestic finance student at a Big Ten University interested in quantitative finance and risk management jobs. I did not major in any of the hard sciences (e.g. physics, math, cs, ee) as an undergraduate major, which I believed has hurt me in the application process. But I do possess a high GPA and have accepted an offer as financial analyst for the nation's largest bank. It's mostly corporate related, but I would like to make the switch to a more quantitative role someday. I have taken it upon myself to take calculus III, linear algebra, and calculus-probability while working. Currently for my last semester, I'm taking a C++ class at my university.

After working professionally for five years, what are my chances of getting into the industry without going to a brand-name college? My strategy is to build my network within the bank and find out whether brand or having the competency of the job matters more. As far as I can tell, my chances of getting into a brand name school like Columbia or Princeton are very slim with the lack of a math background. But I might be able to break into schools like Minnesota or Georgia Tech to achieve the skills necessary.

The only way I think I can compensate for the lack of my B.S. degree in a hard science is having a high GRE score, work experience, and being domestic. I wonder if that is even enough.

 

[GoIllini]

Princeton has never taken a state school student without a STEM degree, to the best of my knowledge. However there can always be firsts.

Brand names get you into grad schools, but the quality of your work is what gets you a job.

Honestly you are going into a tough industry. If you have a nice job and a nice career, I'd stick to corporate finance.

 

[ygmwy]

Questions that come into my mind:
1) what did you major in?
2) why do you think being quant is better than being a financial analyst?
3) will your mind change in 5 years?
4) do you know what you're getting yourself into?
5) what does being a quant mean to you?
6) can you really handle it? (You barely took any math classes)

 

[Ian Robinson]

Questions that come into my mind:
1) what did you major in?
2) why do you think being quant is better than being a financial analyst?
3) will your mind change in 5 years?
4) do you know what you're getting yourself into?
5) what does being a quant mean to you?
6) can you really handle it? (You barely took any math classes)

1) I majored in finance, and I found out about financial engineering through taking my derivatives classes
2) Well obviously the pay is better, but I also weigh the options with the amount of hours a quant works vs a normal analyst
3) It could possibly. I start in July and I'll get a feel for both careers through networking.
4) Yes. Quants go through grueling work and stress just as bad as Investment Bank analysts/associates
5) Being a quant is a challenge intellectually, which is something I want to partake some day. I like challenges and am a competitive person. When I found out what I was interested in, it was too late to switch to a math major.
6) I can never really know unless I give it a try. If I can't, risk management is another career I'm willing to pursue

 

[ygmwy]

1) I majored in finance, and I found out about financial engineering through taking my derivatives classes
2) Well obviously the pay is better, but I also weigh the options with the amount of hours a quant works vs a normal analyst
3) It could possibly. I start in July and I'll get a feel for both careers through networking.
4) Yes. Quants go through grueling work and stress just as bad as Investment Bank analysts/associates
5) Being a quant is a challenge intellectually, which is something I want to partake some day. I like challenges and am a competitive person. When I found out what I was interested in, it was too late to switch to a math major.
6) I can never really know unless I give it a try. If I can't, risk management is another career I'm willing to pursue

It is a myth that quant get paid more than their non quant counterparts. At least, this is not always the case. My professors always told me that if you want to be a quant, you must be prepared to work for someone with half your intelligence and double your salary. Investment Bankers and some other non quant finance people make just as much if not more than quants. But it depends on what kind of quant you are as well.
Also, There are many forms of risk management, and quant/risk management are not necessarily mutually exclusive. What do you know about quant, and what do you know about risk management? My guess is your will change as you learn more about these two fields.
To start out, I would start self studying stochastic calculus to get an idea. (Completely different than what is actually used, but is a necessary starting point. All quants know this.)

 

[Ken Abbott]

If I can't, risk management is another career I'm willing to pursue

Ian, you will stick out like a sore thumb to any risk management interviewer, who will see you as yet another person who is interested in the risk side only as a second choice.

 

[Ian Robinson]

Ian, you will stick out like a sore thumb to any risk management interviewer, who will see you as yet another person who is interested in the risk side only as a second choice.

Not necessarily. I already accepted an offer and will be starting a career in corporate finance this summer. I'm just here to learn more about quantitative analysis. I do not exactly know what I want to do, so I join the forums and read articles on the nature of the work in addition to networking. It doesn't mean that risk management is a second choice, nor does it mean quantitative analysis is a first choice. I'm simply here to be enlightened by different careers of finance and see where my skills and interests align.

 

[pacman]

6) can you really handle it? (You barely took any math classes)

How is taking up to Calc III, Linear Alg and Probability: "barely taking math classes"? With addition of just differential equations he would be prepared to enter most masters programs.

 

[moretodo]

It is highly unlikely that your boss as a quant would be half as smart as you. Almost always he or she has done the same work he or she asks of you and the fact that most of his/her responsibilities are managerial gives you the illusion that he/she is not that smart since his/her work is not that challenging currently.

 

[GoIllini]

How is taking up to Calc III, Linear Alg and Probability: "barely taking math classes"? With addition of just differential equations he would be prepared to enter most masters programs.

It's not just how much math- it's also how much you apply it. Your typical engineer has taken ~5 math classes plus another 15-20 that require him to regularly apply calculus, linear algebra, discrete math, or stats.

 

[ygmwy]

It's not just how much math- it's also how much you apply it. Your typical engineer has taken ~5 math classes plus another 15-20 that require him to regularly apply calculus, linear algebra, discrete math, or stats.

I agree. What about statistics? And what about stochastic processes? Masters programs are very fast and densely packed, and while you might have all the basic knowledge,you might not have mastered it well enough to do well in a masters program. Think of your peers who will do so much better than you. Also, There is so much to learn about probability and statistics that you cannot learn everything in one class. That's why there are whole masters degrees dedicated to it. That is definitely not enough math, and any admissions counselor would agree.

 

[JesseLevermore]

stochastic processes....really lol. Have mfe people really fooled themselves so far as believing that they'll actually understand stochastic analysis by the end? This guy has done the requisite math courses for an MFE. Great, he never applied it. I've seen many people make it through with hard work.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Does brand name matter?
"I would advise students to pay careful attention to the content of a masters program. The prestige that comes from being admitted to one of the top schools will get you through the first year or two but not necessarily further. A masters program offers the student a golden opportunity to build a solid basis for his future career; course content and quality of teaching are crucial." - Jim Gatheral.
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/interview-with-jim-gatheral.9995/

 

[ygmwy]

stochastic processes....really lol. Have mfe people really fooled themselves so far as believing that they'll actually understand stochastic analysis by the end? This guy has done the requisite math courses for an MFE. Great, he never applied it. I've seen many people make it through with hard work.

Not enough for admission to a top MFE program. Maybe self study, but that's about it. The admissions committee wants to know whether you can handle a multitude of tough math courses, and this does not impress an admissions officer--especially with all the competition. You need to show a certain amount of rigor in your math courses. The list I gave was only a sample of courses that a candidate might want to consider to be more competitive.

And I don't know why you have that opinion against MFE's. The point of MFE is not to be a PhD. You only need to know how to apply stuff you learn. I only said stochastic processes because many people have this background, so if you've never taken even one class in it, you'd be at a major disadvantage from your peers both with respect to admission and with career. No need to hate on MFE's because you think you're smarter...