UCB MFE GMAT vs GRE for UCB MFE (or others)

[Ancientmtk]

Which test would be easier to prepare for for the UCB MFE program?

From what they said at the info sessions, they don't prefer one over another as long as u have a good score.

the problem is, i know getting 99% percentile in Quant is crucial, but GRE quant is much easier than GMAT quant.

My qualifications as of now isn't really impressive, so i want to achieve the highest test score possible to add more value to myself. I'm studying GMAT verbal like mad because I know i will get slaughtered by GRE Verbal, but is it worth the effort to obtain higher Verbal score but having a possibility to suffer in the Quant section (maybe a sub-90% perecentile score)?

I read/heard that they dont care about verbal section, is that completely true?

 

[Sanket Patel]

What makes you so sure the GMAT quant is much harder the GRE quant? I don't know..that's why I'm asking. I'd imagine they are both equal or near-equal difficulty. If anythying, I would think the GRE quant section is bit more difficult. If you look at graduate level science/mathematics/engineering programs, virtually all require the GRE intead of GMAT. That might mean something...

Don't worry too much about the verbal sections. You should, of course, aim for 100% on the quant section, but 90% is probably the lowest you can get by with.

 

[Ancientmtk]

.

GMAT Quant isn't particularly harder than GRE Quant, but i feel that GMAT math is more tricky than GRE's. Granted both don't really assess one's quantitative abilities, GRE's Quant i feel is easier since I've seen them throughout my academic life.

When you said " Don't worry too much about the verbal sections, you need atleast 90% ", is it me or it is contradicting? 90% verbal is a bit hard to get, as my vocab skill is pretty crappy

 

[Sanket Patel]

Disregard that, it was a typo. :D

 

[Ancientmtk]

Haha np. U scared me for a sec.

1 more question, do they look at your GMAT score as a whole, or they look at each individual percentile also? ( i'm not familiar how GMAT scores are interpreted.)

 

[Pravit]

I'm kind of confused by your test preparation strategy. Most MFE programs require the GRE, so why not just study and take the GRE?

i want to achieve the highest test score possible to add more value to myself

Personally, I think the GRE and GMAT are just filters, not opportunities to add value to your application. I honestly doubt that the deciding factor between any two candidates would be their GRE verbal score. Standardized tests just help admissions committees see if there is something wrong with the candidate (e.g. can't do high school math or has severe English problems).

is it worth the effort to obtain higher Verbal score but having a possibility to suffer in the Quant section (maybe a sub-90% perecentile score)?

I would say definitely not. You don't want to risk getting anything less than 780 on quantitative. Having a high GRE verbal score doesn't seem to add much value to an application for financial engineering programs. Literary criticism, on the other hand...

 

[Ancientmtk]

Hmm, my line of thinking is that higher standard test score would important, like how SAT score is in college admission.

So a person with 750 GMAT score wouldn't look thatmuch different than a person with 550 Verbal/790 Math?

 

[Pravit]

Standardized test scores aren't as important for MFEs as they are for law school or med school. They can hurt you if you score too low, but they can't really help you. Pretty much everyone is expected to have 780+ on the quantitative section, and standards for the verbal seem to be pretty low - there have been people accepted to good programs with verbals in the 300-400 range. If you're a foreign student they'll probably require TOEFL scores anyway.

So a person with 750 GMAT score wouldn't look thatmuch different than a person with 550 Verbal/790 Math?

I'm not sure how GMAT scoring works, but I don't see why they would be evaluating the combined scores. Doesn't the GMAT report your scores on individual sections anyway?

At any rate, standardized test scores are a very small portion of the entire application. Classes you've taken, work experience, recommendations, and statement of purpose are far more important, in my opinion.

Edit: From the GMAT website:

The Graduate Management Admission Test® (GMAT®) yields four scores: Verbal, Quantitative, Total, and Analytical Writing Assessment. Each of these scores is reported on a fixed scale and will appear on the official GMAT® score reports that you and your designated score recipients (programs) receive.

 

[Ancientmtk]

So, diverting myself from excessive GMAT studying, whereelse should i focus my attention to?

This is my criteria:
BS in EE in 2007, 3.2/4 GPA, currently work in IT operations, passed CFA L1.

What else do i need to focus on in order to have a stronger application?

 

[JCrew]

From what I recall GMAT has higher resolution at the right tail on the quant section. If you score 800 on the GRE quant section, you still end up at only the 95%-tile.

Not to be a debbie downer, I would say you have very little chance of being admitted into the UCB program unless you can ace the GRE subject test (90+%-tile). I have nearly the identical profile as you along with 6+years of C++ programming. GRE score of (730V,800Q). I don't think I was even ranked in the top half. If you look at their student profile, nearly everyone has advance degrees or tons of financial modeling experience already. I only warn because their application fee is quite hefty.

 

[Ancientmtk]

I know a few people that did not have such a stellar Quant background/advance degrees that got into the UCB program. This may not be the norm, but I do see a slim ray of hope of being that person. Of course, I know i'm competing against Giants here.

On the other note, what is the GRE Sub test that u are speaking of? Would one take the test to show his/her math abilities, or is it another standard test?

 

[JCrew]

I know a few people that did not have such a stellar Quant background/advance degrees that got into the UCB program. This may not be the norm, but I do see a slim ray of hope of being that person. Of course, I know i'm competing against Giants here.

On the other note, what is the GRE Sub test that u are speaking of? Would one take the test to show his/her math abilities, or is it another standard test?

Do you know what year they were admitted? Early on in the program, their acceptance was rather high.

The GRE subject test I am talking about is the mathematics one. The questions do not get very deep into any advance topics, but the difficulty stems from the breadth of the subject matter (Calculus, Topology, Probability, Abstract Algebra, Complex Analysis) which would be very difficult for a non-math undergrad to score well in. Many of the questions you could reason your way into the correct answer if you know some basic axioms and definitions, but you don't really have the time. Coming from an EE/Csci background, I was only able to get to 2/3 of the questions in the alloted time (I was planning to use the night before to get a pace down with the sample tests, but forces at work prevented that from happening). Princeton Review has a review book for the test, however I do not think the book maps well to the real test. Much better is getting the out of print book from ebay that contains 2 old tests (one may overlap the sample test ETS gives out..I don't recall).

Also UCB has rolling deadlines for the application process. I applied right before the last deadline. They said via email, that it shouldn't matter when you apply, but I lean towards that if you apply earlier, it increases your chances at least slightly. Just my subjective viewpoint.

 

[Francis]

Regarding the difficulty of the UCB admission rate, even though its one of the top schools for MFE, their acceptance rate is higher than schools on the East Coast, namely NYU, Baruch, Princeton, Columbia and Tepper. I guess its because of the job market, so if you were planning to apply to top schools, UCB is not the most difficult in terms of admission although you need significant work experience.

I think UCB and Chicago are the only two (and maybe a couple others) MFE programs (not MS in Finance -- ie UIUC) that require or can substitute a GMAT for a GRE, most schools explicitly state that GMAT may not substitute for GRE.

 

[Ancientmtk]

Yes, one of them applied for early registration and got in. I believe that applying early will give you some upper hand, thus I am aiming for the Jan 2009 deadline for March 2010.

Jcrew, did you study alot for the GRE Sub Math test? The topics don't seem all that difficult, i'm assuming, with EE background, that with decent study time one should be able to do it well.
Just curious, why did you decide to take GRE Sub math? Did you feel that it will fill in some gaps on your apps?

Thanks for sharing, btw.

Do you know what year they were admitted? Early on in the program, their acceptance was rather high.

The GRE subject test I am talking about is the mathematics one. The questions do not get very deep into any advance topics, but the difficulty stems from the breadth of the subject matter (Calculus, Topology, Probability, Abstract Algebra, Complex Analysis) which would be very difficult for a non-math undergrad to score well in. Many of the questions you could reason your way into the correct answer if you know some basic axioms and definitions, but you don't really have the time. Coming from an EE/Csci background, I was only able to get to 2/3 of the questions in the alloted time (I was planning to use the night before to get a pace down with the sample tests, but forces at work prevented that from happening). Princeton Review has a review book for the test, however I do not think the book maps well to the real test. Much better is getting the out of print book from ebay that contains 2 old tests (one may overlap the sample test ETS gives out..I don't recall).

Also UCB has rolling deadlines for the application process. I applied right before the last deadline. They said via email, that it shouldn't matter when you apply, but I lean towards that if you apply earlier, it increases your chances at least slightly. Just my subjective viewpoint.

 

[Pravit]

I've heard the GRE math subject test can be a good way to demonstrate your math skills (unlike the GRE general test or GMAT), so it might be what you're looking for in terms of adding value to your application. I didn't bother taking it when I applied, but I know more people are taking it these days. It's required by the Chicago program, and recommended by the Stanford program.

 

[MattNolan]

The GMAT Math is considerably harder than the GRE Math. (I took both)

The GMAT Math gives you a raw score (out of 51) and a percentile, the GRE is the standard 800 SAT scale.

The GMAT report you get says that a quant score above 50 is very rare.

 

[JCrew]

Yes, one of them applied for early registration and got in. I believe that applying early will give you some upper hand, thus I am aiming for the Jan 2009 deadline for March 2010.

Jcrew, did you study alot for the GRE Sub Math test? The topics don't seem all that difficult, i'm assuming, with EE background, that with decent study time one should be able to do it well.
Just curious, why did you decide to take GRE Sub math? Did you feel that it will fill in some gaps on your apps?

Thanks for sharing, btw.

I did not study that much after I found out I was accepted to the local Fin Math program. I only signed up for the test because the Chicago program requires it, but I decided not apply. I went through with the test to see where I would rank (~40%), maybe not too bad for not answering the last third of the questions and not being a math major. Maybe it is. After one year of doing part time Fin. Math however I feel I could do much better. Just have to get your mind in an abstract math mode where you condition yourself to see how you get the answer right away instead of searching your brain.

The biggest problem is that the breadth of the subject matter is wide (even though the higher level concepts seem relatively simple) and you are competing against the nerdiest types of people, so I imagine it would be difficult to rank high vs people with my relative ability but with a full set of undergrad math courses. But then again I've been out of school prior to that for 6 years, so maybe I would have done better 1-2 years out of undergrad.

I had hope my 99%-tile verbal score would tilt things in my favor, but no such luck.

 

[Jack Zhang]

just a reminder. pay attention to your AWA score. I got 5/6 in GMAT and UCB asked me to retake it and bring it up to 70th%. I retook it and I still got 5/6. So I gave up on UCB

Which test would be easier to prepare for for the UCB MFE program?

From what they said at the info sessions, they don't prefer one over another as long as u have a good score.

the problem is, i know getting 99% percentile in Quant is crucial, but GRE quant is much easier than GMAT quant.

My qualifications as of now isn't really impressive, so i want to achieve the highest test score possible to add more value to myself. I'm studying GMAT verbal like mad because I know i will get slaughtered by GRE Verbal, but is it worth the effort to obtain higher Verbal score but having a possibility to suffer in the Quant section (maybe a sub-90% perecentile score)?

I read/heard that they dont care about verbal section, is that completely true?