help decide.. MS-Operations Research at GA Tech or MS-EMS at Columbia?

[financeguy]

What I was saying was that you take the same course material as we have. The only thing is that there simply are no video cameras in the lectures we go to. So these lectures were recorded at some other point in time. The difference is that you just aren't in our classes and so are not studying with us. Unless they have very strategically placed a hidden camera in various classrooms around the Mudd building, none of the 11 classes I took toward my MSOR last year were videotaped and so you could not have been in my class. (The professor of the vol smile course is Emanuel Derman, and he was certainly on campus fall semester when I was not permitted to take the CVN course.) But I really don't think that this is a big deal because as you said, you'll get the same degree.

Now, distinguishing between EMS and OR is rather tricky. That SIEO 4150 course is a core MSOR class, but in reality the vast majority of MSOR students are exempt from it because they've done it in undergrad. People who apply to MSOR who don't have this background will find it difficult to be accepted. A lot also place out of the stochastic models and/or deterministic models courses, but in that case they would have to take higher level courses in those areas instead of just being plain exempt. (See the thread 'some truth about Columbia OR', where I go in depth into the program.) At the undergrad level, I've been led to believe OR is more prestigious than EMS, but I don't see exactly why that would be the case, and I have not found that at the graduate level. I think it just comes down to what you want out of the degree. EMS will have you focus on EMS subjects while OR is more of a broad interpretation of OR (meaning you can pretty much tailor your degree to what you want). If you want to work in EMS, then do the EMS degree. If you want to do finance or financial engineering, do OR. I don't think either is 'better' or more prestigious than the other.

 

[coolharvard]

Since I have engineering background, I think i'll stick with EMS.

But hey, these are the courses I plan to take for MSEMS. Based on your experience, can you list the difficulty of them from hardest to easiest so i can plan my study accordingly (i.e. take easier class during the busiest time of my job during the year and vice versa).... ?


IEOR E4004: Introduction to OR: Deterministic Models

IEOR E4106: Introduction to OR: Stochastic Models

IEOR E4601: Dynamic Pricing and Revenue Optimization

IEOR E4602: Quantitative Risk Management

IEOR E4003: Industrial Economics
IEOR E4404: Simulation

IEOR E4700: Introduction to Financial Engineering

IEOR E4418: Logistics and Transportation Management

 

[financeguy]

It depends on your experience, strengths, and weaknesses.
Deterministic Models has tons of material and that makes it hard. It's just a whole lot to memorize. It's a graduate level course in mathematical (linear) programming. So if you have had some background in it, then it will be easier for you. I found, though, that this course takes up a lot of time.
Stochastic models is hard if the course is taught by Yao and easy if it is taught by Witt. This is your standard graduate level course in stochastic models/processes.
If you're a good programmer, Simulation tends to be easier; if you're not, plan on spending a good amount of time on this course. Also, this course has a group project - I'm not sure how CVN students handle that.
I don't know anything about Dynamic Pricing and Revenue Optimization.
I heard that Quantitative Risk Management is very, very challenging. In general anything taught by Blanchet tends to be hard. I have not taken the course, though.
Industrial Economics is probably the easiest course you have up here, almost for sure. A good amount of undergrads take it, which makes competition less intense. In general if you're looking for a bird course, follow the undergrads. I did not take this course because it was too basic (I had come in with a bit of a finance/economics background already).
Intro to Financial Engineering is probably a close second in ease. I did not take this course because like industrial economics it was too basic. If you have any understanding of modern financial theory this would be very easy for you, but I can see how it would be a very steep learning curve if you didn't.
You will need to have taken Deterministic Models before you take Logistics and Transportation Management. I did not take this course so I can't paint you a picture in great detail, but I can tell you that how well you do in and understand the material in Deterministic Models will be a great indicator as to how difficult you'll find LTM. I have heard it's not trivial from one person who took it.
Any MSOR grads/students out there, feel free to fill in any gaps here.

 

[coolharvard]

I checked IEOR website... how come there are only 50 EMS students while there are 200 OR students... (along with 70 FE students and 20 IE students) in IEOR department?

 

[coolharvard]

Hey Financeguy.

Have you heard of EMS getting nicknames like "Emergency Major Switch" or "Engineerng Made Simple"??

 

[bob]

It's not clear to me what exactly your concentration is, athough I assume you're interested in the finance angle, given where you're posting.

I should say I'm biased, since my father was on the faculty at Tech until he retired, is still listed as an emeritus professor on the QCF website, and had a big hand in creating ISyE's MSStat program there. That said, I know the Math department there and, to a lesser degree, ISyE fairly well.

As you know already, their ISyE department is top-notch. The math department has lots of strong folks, including one faculty member who does research in numerical methods for PDE's and is fairly well known in European quant circles for this. In terms of QCF, what you'll get is very good people teaching you the mathematical underpinnings of the field in a solid, useful way; the faculty is accustomed to teaching these topics for an applied audience.

What you lose at Tech if you're interested in finance is...well...New York City. The faculty's finance contacts are obviously not as strong as they would be at Columbia, so you'll get less of a sense of what's cool right now, and more focus on the classical approaches, to the extent that anything less than 50 years old can be called "classical." More importantly, the lesser degree of industry contact makes it harder to get placed in the field than it would here.

But all this is assuming you're interested in QCF. And in any case, for a distance learning student I'm not sure to what degree the connections will matter, since you're far less likely to find an interested advocate on the faculty via computer than you would be in person. Perhaps that isn't fair, but it's true.

In any case, whether you go more for finance or the other areas of OR, if you're interested in learning the material rather than networking, Tech is a fantastic choice. I'm sure Columbia has excellent people in the area--they pretty much always do--but Tech's OR department is extremely well respected and produces excellent people.

 

[financeguy]

Yes, and I've heard Industrial Engineering called "Imaginary Engineering" and blah blah blah. I don't think that's a Columbia-specific thing. Anyways those names are applied to the undergrads.
I wouldn't pay any mind to it. In any case the MSEMS is different from the undergrad EMS. The undergrad engineering at Columbia is definitely not top tier, but the graduate programs most certainly are in the IEOR department.
And now your question about the numbers of students. More people generally want to do MSOR due to the flexibility and because it can be applied to a number of fields. People do MSOR for a handful of different reasons and tailor their coursework accordingly. I would assume people do MSEMS for fewer reasons. Also, more MSOR students stay for 1.5 or 2 years than do MSEMS students. That would mean that you have a lot of double counting of students on that list because the MSEMSs would all be from the same class while the MSORs would be from last year's start as well as this year's start.

Hey Financeguy.

Have you heard of EMS getting nicknames like "Emergency Major Switch" or "Engineerng Made Simple"??

 

[coolharvard]

I am thinking about switching from MS-EMS to MS-OR for Columbia cuz OR seems to be a more mainstream program.....

 

[coolharvard]

Yes, and I've heard Industrial Engineering called "Imaginary Engineering" and blah blah blah. I don't think that's a Columbia-specific thing. Anyways those names are applied to the undergrads.
I wouldn't pay any mind to it. In any case the MSEMS is different from the undergrad EMS. The undergrad engineering at Columbia is definitely not top tier, but the graduate programs most certainly are in the IEOR department.
And now your question about the numbers of students. More people generally want to do MSOR due to the flexibility and because it can be applied to a number of fields. People do MSOR for a handful of different reasons and tailor their coursework accordingly. I would assume people do MSEMS for fewer reasons. Also, more MSOR students stay for 1.5 or 2 years than do MSEMS students. That would mean that you have a lot of double counting of students on that list because the MSEMSs would all be from the same class while the MSORs would be from last year's start as well as this year's start.

Can you also comment on the difficulty and the contents of this class: IEOR 4000 - Production and Operations Management... ?

 

[financeguy]

I never took this course and haven't heard anything about it, sorry.

Can you also comment on the difficulty and the contents of this class: IEOR 4000 - Production and Operations Management... ?

 

[Alexei]

I can give you an idea about the course in general which might be different at CU. I took this course at Baruch Honors which was taught by CU professor and it was about scheduling jobs, optimizations of different activities... there was an interesting one with a task of placing a printer in the office to minimize traffic

 

[lvmhung]

Is the CVN application got notified earlier than normal full time MS application? Are you going to enroll Fall 2010 or earlier because I am also applying to the Columbia program and the deadline is not until Feb 15. Just wondering if Columbia actually processes OR/FE/EMS admission on first come first serve basis.

 

[coolharvard]

It depends on your experience, strengths, and weaknesses.
Deterministic Models has tons of material and that makes it hard. It's just a whole lot to memorize. It's a graduate level course in mathematical (linear) programming. So if you have had some background in it, then it will be easier for you. I found, though, that this course takes up a lot of time.
Stochastic models is hard if the course is taught by Yao and easy if it is taught by Witt. This is your standard graduate level course in stochastic models/processes.
If you're a good programmer, Simulation tends to be easier; if you're not, plan on spending a good amount of time on this course. Also, this course has a group project - I'm not sure how CVN students handle that.
I don't know anything about Dynamic Pricing and Revenue Optimization.
I heard that Quantitative Risk Management is very, very challenging. In general anything taught by Blanchet tends to be hard. I have not taken the course, though.
Industrial Economics is probably the easiest course you have up here, almost for sure. A good amount of undergrads take it, which makes competition less intense. In general if you're looking for a bird course, follow the undergrads. I did not take this course because it was too basic (I had come in with a bit of a finance/economics background already).
Intro to Financial Engineering is probably a close second in ease. I did not take this course because like industrial economics it was too basic. If you have any understanding of modern financial theory this would be very easy for you, but I can see how it would be a very steep learning curve if you didn't.
You will need to have taken Deterministic Models before you take Logistics and Transportation Management. I did not take this course so I can't paint you a picture in great detail, but I can tell you that how well you do in and understand the material in Deterministic Models will be a great indicator as to how difficult you'll find LTM. I have heard it's not trivial from one person who took it.
Any MSOR grads/students out there, feel free to fill in any gaps here.

Hi FinanceGuy.



What do you mean when you said if a good amount of undergrad take a class, that would make the competition less intense? Do the professors grade undergrad students easier (i.e. with more mercy)?

Also, what do you know about Professor Guillermo Gallego? He has been assigned to me as my MSOR advisor... I'd like to know what his reputation is among Columbia graduate students... any info would be appreciated.