How important is CS ?

[YuZhao]

Hi guys,

I need your guys' advice on CS major. I am pretty sure that I will do things related to finance and math in the future, but I am not sure if i need to do a CS major in college.
Because i did several AP courses in high school, I am able to either graduate in my senior year with a Math, CS and economics triple major in college or graduate in my junior year with math and economics double major. There is a tradeoff to do a CS major here. If i do CS, i spend one year's time in college and i pay tuition of one more year, which is not a small amount for me. Another dilemma i have is about actuarial exams. If i do cs major and have fours years time in college, i am, hopefully, able to pass five actuarial exams before graduation(i have three now, so two more), which prepare me better for a job. So, the question is how important is CS? Should I do a CS major and stay in college for four years?
BTW, are there any specific CS courses you guys recommend? Even if i am not doing CS major, i think i still have time to do a couple of more CS courses. Thanks.

 

[Lyosha]

Depends on where you want to go.

If you go into Risk management, CS will not be very useful. If you go into algo trading, you better know the CS material cold and then some.

 

[YuZhao]

Depends on where you want to go.

If you go into Risk management, CS will not be very useful. If you go into algo trading, you better know the CS material cold and then some.

what kinds of CS courses does algo trading need?

 

[iniesta]

Algorithms, haha

 

[Lyosha]

Anything practical about optimization is useful. That includes database courses, data structures, anything parallel programming, compiler theory, any class where you work with sockets, machine learning, etc. the list goes on may be useful, I mean, as an algo trader speed is your greatest asset, closely followed by how well you can interpret your information to get useful information out of the noise. Anything that helps you go faster makes you that much closer...

The theoretical courses aren't that useful.

 

[Tom Maloney]

Just a comment on actuarial exams - it's probably not worth taking any more unless you are damn sure you want to be an actuary.

 

[YuZhao]

Just a comment on actuarial exams - it's probably not worth taking any more unless you are damn sure you want to be an actuary.

why? maybe i am mistaken, but I thought some of the preliminary actuarial exams are common to other areas of finance.

 

[APalley]

Five actuarial exams are a lot to have prior to graduation. I assume you want to obtain your ASA?

If you plan on becoming an actuary, it is very hard to get a job with an ASA straight out of college -- you will be overqualified. Most entry-level actuarial positions prefer somewhere in the 2-3 exam range; that way you will be able to do 'the rotations' and gain experience to complement the exams.

If you do not plan on working as an actuary, I am not sure why you would want to subject yourself to arguably the most difficult exam series known to mankind.

 

[APalley]

why? maybe i am mistaken, but I thought some of the preliminary actuarial exams are common to other areas of finance.

This is true. However most people outside the actuarial realm will not have a clue as to what these examinations are.

 

[YuZhao]

Anything practical about optimization is useful. That includes database courses, data structures, anything parallel programming, compiler theory, any class where you work with sockets, machine learning, etc. the list goes on may be useful, I mean, as an algo trader speed is your greatest asset, closely followed by how well you can interpret your information to get useful information out of the noise. Anything that helps you go faster makes you that much closer...

The theoretical courses aren't that useful.

thank you Alexei, i guess i will take a few more CS courses and see how things go. can you please name a few theoretical courses?

 

[YuZhao]

Five actuarial exams are a lot to have prior to graduation. I assume you want to obtain your ASA?

If you plan on becoming an actuary, it is very hard to get a job with an ASA straight out of college -- you will be overqualified. Most entry-level actuarial positions prefer somewhere in the 2-3 exam range; that way you will be able to do 'the rotations' and gain experience to complement the exams.

If you do not plan on working as an actuary, I am not sure why you would want to subject yourself to arguably the most difficult exam series known to mankind.

thanks, APalley. This is really helpful. My college adviser told my that the more exams i have, the higher the chance i get a job. Well, he is not an actuary and he does not have much experience in actuarial science. it sounds reasonable to me that five exams are too much. I heard that companies pay higher salaries to people with more exams. But i do not see a reason that a company is willing to pay the salary of five exams to a kid just graduating from college.

However, I do want to have actuarial science as an option for my future career. Instead of working on actuarial exams, are there anything you recommend me to do?

 

[Tom Maloney]

thanks, APalley. This is really helpful. My college adviser told my that the more exams i have, the higher the chance i get a job. Well, he is not an actuary and he does not have much experience in actuarial science. it sounds reasonable to me that five exams are too much. I heard that companies pay higher salaries to people with more exams. But i do not see a reason that a company is willing to pay the salary of five exams to a kid just graduating from college.

However, I do want to have actuarial science as an option for my future career. Instead of working on actuarial exams, are there anything you recommend me to do?

As an actuary you get promoted and paid more as you pass exams. But the exams are worthless if you're not an actuary.

 

[APalley]

thanks, APalley. This is really helpful. My college adviser told my that the more exams i have, the higher the chance i get a job. Well, he is not an actuary and he does not have much experience in actuarial science. it sounds reasonable to me that five exams are too much. I heard that companies pay higher salaries to people with more exams. But i do not see a reason that a company is willing to pay the salary of five exams to a kid just graduating from college.

However, I do want to have actuarial science as an option for my future career. Instead of working on actuarial exams, are there anything you recommend me to do?

Most insurance companies have an 'actuarial development program' where they give you time off to study, pay for your exams, and give you raises/bonuses as you sludge your way through the exams. During that time (usually about 3-6 years if you go for FSA level) you rotate into different areas of actuarial work to gain experience to complement the exams. Without the experience, the exams really don't mean that much.

Your college adviser is correct that you have a competitive edge with more exams -- through the 3rd exam. Therefore, by all means take the 1st three if you think there is a decent chance of you becoming an actuary. The first 2.5 or 3 are definitely very relevant to anything in quantitative finance (Probability, Financial Mathematics, and MFE). The later ASA exams are very technical and related to life contingencies and modeling.

In addition to the first few exams, it would be helpful to take college courses in economics (micro and macro), Corporate Finance, and Econometrics. This because the SOA now requires something called Validation through Educational Experience (VEE) in these topics. They are willing to accept certain courses from most colleges (check the SOA website to see if your school has their courses registered for credit). Will save you loads of time later on and you won't have to pay the SOA loads of cash to take one of their offered courses.

 

[startover]

CS is about how to approach and solve problems in a wide range of contexts and that would boost one's intellectual capabilities and efficiency even if he ends up working in HR.

 

[Lyosha]

thank you Alexei, i guess i will take a few more CS courses and see how things go. can you please name a few theoretical courses?

If you have to learn 5 different languages or what turing machines are or draw state diagrams those are "theoretical" courses.

Just look for things you know to be relevant: Machine Learning, Optimization, Parallel Processing, Databases, etc.

 

[SimonZheng]

If you have to learn 5 different languages or what turing machines are or draw state diagrams those are "theoretical" courses.

Just look for things you know to be relevant: Machine Learning, Optimization, Parallel Processing, Databases, etc.

Good to hear Turing machine here. A few years ago, my undergraduate thesis was applying Turing machine to high-speed pattern matching algorithms.

Besides Lyosha's suggestions, it's useful to be proficient in C++ at an expert level and familar with one scripting language like Python.