Is BSc Economics ok to become a quant?

[ronswanson]

Hi all,

I'm 18, have just received my A-levels and am about to start BSc Economics at LSE in September. I definitely want to work in finance and am presently between trying to become an investment banker or a quant. I had already applied to Economics degrees by the time I started really looking into career paths and am now slightly worries that not taking maths or computer science will limit my career prospects as a quant.

I really enjoyed studying double maths at A-level and achieved A*A*. I understand the Economics course at LSE is quite mathsy and intend to make it as much so as possible. I also understand (largely from QN) the importance of a MSc in Maths/Financial Mathematics/Statistics/Maths and Computing etc. so hope to apply to one of these degrees after my undergraduate. I've kind of assumed that spring weeks and generic steps towards investment banking/finance, teaching myself programming and finding ways to put more maths in my degree will help with this.

My question comes in two parts:
1) Will it be harder for me to apply to competitive universities (Imperial College London, Oxbridge, LSE again) on relevant and renowned masters courses for having a degree in Economics instead of Mathematics?
2) Will undergraduate Economics limit my career prospects (independent of or with a decent masters) as a quant?

Any advice would be much appreciate and I hope you're all having an awesome day.

Thanks gs

 

[TheComplexUnit]

I think you can be quite happy with your course - there's enough flexibility for you to transition into either role. Universities like Imperial and UCL offer "quant conversion masters" which happily will accept you as an economist. Courses within maths departments might be more tricky though.

Now you just have to decide which you like better: PowerPoint or IDEs.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

To be a "quant" a decent knowledge of maths and programming is needed.
The "maths" in Economics is probably not enough.

 

[quantmenot]

No, it’s not OK. You need a degree in mathematics, applied mathematics, physics, or something else with dense mathematics. It’s OK (and even good) to supplement with a degree in economics.

 

[cowboy]

To be a "quant" a decent knowledge of maths and programming is needed.
The "maths" in Economics is probably not enough.

No, it’s not OK. You need a degree in mathematics, applied mathematics, physics, or something else with dense mathematics. It’s OK (and even good) to supplement with a degree in economics.

I think you're both right but not for the good reason, if the "math" in physics are anough, it would not be the problem when talking about the "math" in economics, I don't know where you from but I have to say that a fairly good undergraduate in economics contains enough math to the quantitative finance industry today and I think that LSE belongs to this range of program (at least, I hope). The real problem is more about your skill in programming, while undegraduates in physics used to manipulate different laguages, in economics it is something very unusual and it could be hurt your odds to be a quant researcher. Get a look at some program that would allow you to get some computer skills (I have in mind UCL with their bsc in economics and statistics) or try to get these courses at LSE, it may be possible

 

[Daniel Duffy]

fairly good undergraduate in economics contains enough math
depends

 

[Qui-Gon]

I think you're both right but not for the good reason, if the "math" in physics are anough, it would not be the problem when talking about the "math" in economics, I don't know where you from but I have to say that a fairly good undergraduate in economics contains enough math to the quantitative finance industry today and I think that LSE belongs to this range of program (at least, I hope). The real problem is more about your skill in programming, while undegraduates in physics used to manipulate different laguages, in economics it is something very unusual and it could be hurt your odds to be a quant researcher. Get a look at some program that would allow you to get some computer skills (I have in mind UCL with their bsc in economics and statistics) or try to get these courses at LSE, it may be possible

A “fairly good” undergraduate program in economics absolutely does not contain the same level of mathematics as even a “not so good” undergraduate program in physics, and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Even if physics and econ undergraduates both take a calculus sequence, linear algebra, differential equations (and maybe a course in analysis), one must be clear: the applications of mathematics in undergraduate level core economics courses — with the exception of top ~20 universities — are nowhere close to how much math is applied in undergraduate level core physics courses. This is under the assumption that both groups take the same level of mathematical prerequisites which is already not usually the case. If you want to study economics in undergraduate and you want to be a quant, pick up a double major in math/applied math/stats.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

And good programming skills (C++, Python,..)

 

[Ken Abbott]

The exception that proves the rule: in three decades in the business, I've encountered only one full-fledged quant who only had a BS (from Berkeley). Withe a bachelor's degree, you simply don't know what you don't know. A few years on the job helps focus your interest, but you really need graduate-level education.

 

[eshen]

The exception that proves the rule: in three decades in the business, I've encountered only one full-fledged quant who only had a BS (from Berkeley). Withe a bachelor's degree, you simply don't know what you don't know. A few years on the job helps focus your interest, but you really need graduate-level education.

Thanks for the input Ken. Where would you say is the stage that people start to "know what they don't know" then? Is it during the graduate education itself? Or perhaps while on a job?

 

[Ken Abbott]

Thanks for the input Ken. Where would you say is the stage that people start to "know what they don't know" then? Is it during the graduate education itself? Or perhaps while on a job?

For me it was on the job, but that was bolstered by my early classes. What is like to happen is that you'll see some problem (and perhaps even solve it) and then realize there's a whole body of knowledge surrounding it. I had to reverse-engineer a portfolio optimization as a young man. Only then did I realize the process had a formal name (QP) and that volumes of material had been written about how to do it.

 

[quantmenot]

I think you're both right but not for the good reason, if the "math" in physics are anough, it would not be the problem when talking about the "math" in economics, I don't know where you from but I have to say that a fairly good undergraduate in economics contains enough math to the quantitative finance industry today and I think that LSE belongs to this range of program (at least, I hope). The real problem is more about your skill in programming, while undegraduates in physics used to manipulate different laguages, in economics it is something very unusual and it could be hurt your odds to be a quant researcher. Get a look at some program that would allow you to get some computer skills (I have in mind UCL with their bsc in economics and statistics) or try to get these courses at LSE, it may be possible

A bad physics degree most likely contains as much (perhaps more) mathematics as (than) a good economics degree.

 

[ParticlePhynance]

My sister did her BSc in Econ at a top UK uni (LSE/UCL) and I did a BSc in Physics followed by a maths MSc at oxbridge. She interned in S&T, I am trying to get into quant finance.

A couple inputs:
1) The quantitative component of an econ degree is not sufficient for becoming a quant. Especially in the UK, where in my opinion university is less academically rigorous than in continental europe, an econ bsc is not a good enough preparation for a quant career (not enough maths and programming). And btw, in response to people who said that a good econ degree has more maths than a bad physics degree: they are not even close. If I compare my physics curriculum with that of my sister's BSc, they are miles apart in terms of how quantitaive they were and how much maths they had. Econ at BSc level doesn't go past vector calculus, linear algebra and some stats. They didn't even study integrals. However, I remember that my sister's degree had a lot of flexibility in terms of electives so you *might* be able to squeeze in enough maths to make it good enough for grad applications to MFEs. The best masters like imperial maths and finance and oxford MCF won't generally take you with an econ bsc but you will have reasonable chances for lighter MFEs like imperial RMFE and UCL computational finance, etc. Another options are computing conversion courses for quant developer roles (I know a guy with a business bsc who did msc computing at imperial and found a job as quant developer at BoA).

2) In my opinion, you cannot know at your stage whether you want to be a quant, you simply don't have enough data points to assess that because a) quants spend 95% of their time coding and I would guess you never spent enough all nighters debugging C++ code to understand if you actually enjoy doing it; b) the maths in high school is totally different than the maths at university. I was a rockstar in maths in high school (took part in maths olympads) but my physics degree has been quite a shock at the beginning (and quite an humbling experience too). Quants make less money than i-bankers and spend their days coding, which I think is a kind of occupation that would be enjoyable for a relatively small subset of people, arguably much smaller than those who might find IB or S&T enjoyable

3) I do know people with econ BSc who got into top MFEs (one at CMU, one at Berkeley, at one at Ecole Polytechnique in france after which he got a quant job at JPM) however they all did their BSc electives in maths and programming and the CMU guy also took several classes in maths as an outside student at a local university while he was working.

As I see it you have three options:
1) continue your bsc econ degree, which is arguably the best BSc in Europe if you want to do vanilla banking, and do IB or S&T. For instance, you could do some maths electives and shoot for more quanty S&T spots, like QIS structuring, exotics, etc. They are more enjoyable for 95% of people and you would make more than quants

2) Do your econ bsc taking as many electives as you can. Learn coding and do some projects, either as internships or on the side. Then you could take some classes in maths/coding as an external student or do a 1yr conversion course in CS or Maths (e.g. kings college has a maths conversion diploma) and apply for MFEs after that

3) Reapply as a transfer student for a maths bsc this year at imperial, lse etc

Personal advice: if I were you, I would focus 100% on route 1.

 

[jarryds]

Hi all,

I'm 18, have just received my A-levels and am about to start BSc Economics at LSE in September. I definitely want to work in finance and am presently between trying to become an investment banker or a quant. I had already applied to Economics degrees by the time I started really looking into career paths and am now slightly worries that not taking maths or computer science will limit my career prospects as a quant.

I really enjoyed studying double maths at A-level and achieved A*A*. I understand the Economics course at LSE is quite mathsy and intend to make it as much so as possible. I also understand (largely from QN) the importance of a MSc in Maths/Financial Mathematics/Statistics/Maths and Computing etc. so hope to apply to one of these degrees after my undergraduate. I've kind of assumed that spring weeks and generic steps towards investment banking/finance, teaching myself programming and finding ways to put more maths in my degree will help with this.

My question comes in two parts:
1) Will it be harder for me to apply to competitive universities (Imperial College London, Oxbridge, LSE again) on relevant and renowned masters courses for having a degree in Economics instead of Mathematics?
2) Will undergraduate Economics limit my career prospects (independent of or with a decent masters) as a quant?

Any advice would be much appreciate and I hope you're all having an awesome day.

Thanks gs

Apply, there is only one way to find out. There is not one true way in becoming a quant, only the most commonly traveled path. With that being said, I definitely would not hesitate to find ways to study more quantitatively exhausting topics. Most of the programs I considered when applying required courses such as linear algebra, probability, numerical methods, and calculus (maybe only through multivariable. I did engineering in undergrad, so we took differential equations. I am not 100% sure that was a requirement for these programs).

 

[Avsy]

My sister did her BSc in Econ at a top UK uni (LSE/UCL) and I did a BSc in Physics followed by a maths MSc at oxbridge. She interned in S&T, I am trying to get into quant finance.

A couple inputs:
1) The quantitative component of an econ degree is not sufficient for becoming a quant. Especially in the UK, where in my opinion university is less academically rigorous than in continental europe, an econ bsc is not a good enough preparation for a quant career (not enough maths and programming). And btw, in response to people who said that a good econ degree has more maths than a bad physics degree: they are not even close. If I compare my physics curriculum with that of my sister's BSc, they are miles apart in terms of how quantitaive they were and how much maths they had. Econ at BSc level doesn't go past vector calculus, linear algebra and some stats. They didn't even study integrals. However, I remember that my sister's degree had a lot of flexibility in terms of electives so you *might* be able to squeeze in enough maths to make it good enough for grad applications to MFEs. The best masters like imperial maths and finance and oxford MCF won't generally take you with an econ bsc but you will have reasonable chances for lighter MFEs like imperial RMFE and UCL computational finance, etc. Another options are computing conversion courses for quant developer roles (I know a guy with a business bsc who did msc computing at imperial and found a job as quant developer at BoA).

2) In my opinion, you cannot know at your stage whether you want to be a quant, you simply don't have enough data points to assess that because a) quants spend 95% of their time coding and I would guess you never spent enough all nighters debugging C++ code to understand if you actually enjoy doing it; b) the maths in high school is totally different than the maths at university. I was a rockstar in maths in high school (took part in maths olympads) but my physics degree has been quite a shock at the beginning (and quite an humbling experience too). Quants make less money than i-bankers and spend their days coding, which I think is a kind of occupation that would be enjoyable for a relatively small subset of people, arguably much smaller than those who might find IB or S&T enjoyable

3) I do know people with econ BSc who got into top MFEs (one at CMU, one at Berkeley, at one at Ecole Polytechnique in france after which he got a quant job at JPM) however they all did their BSc electives in maths and programming and the CMU guy also took several classes in maths as an outside student at a local university while he was working.

As I see it you have three options:
1) continue your bsc econ degree, which is arguably the best BSc in Europe if you want to do vanilla banking, and do IB or S&T. For instance, you could do some maths electives and shoot for more quanty S&T spots, like QIS structuring, exotics, etc. They are more enjoyable for 95% of people and you would make more than quants

2) Do your econ bsc taking as many electives as you can. Learn coding and do some projects, either as internships or on the side. Then you could take some classes in maths/coding as an external student or do a 1yr conversion course in CS or Maths (e.g. kings college has a maths conversion diploma) and apply for MFEs after that

3) Reapply as a transfer student for a maths bsc this year at imperial, lse etc

Personal advice: if I were you, I would focus 100% on route 1.

Hi, thank you so much for your response, it really helped me even if I was not the original poster. I was hoping to confirm what S&T means? Thanks!

 

[uneconomical]

Hi! I am a final year LSE BSc Econ student so I can give some tips from my experience. Though most other Econ programs do not have “enough” maths for getting into quant, with LSE’s curriculum, you will ALWAYS have the opportunity to take courses in real analysis, further optimisation methods, differential equation (intermediate level) in the mathematics department. Moreover, LSE itself has a quant masters program, which is dense in maths so you can always take classes in that program given you meet the basic prerequisites.

I myself chose a different track and I am now applying for quant masters program in the US. I focused heavily on programming since I entered uni and especially in my final year, I have taken 3 courses that provide a better than elementary understanding of programming in R, Python and MATLAB. So on that front, you have the opportunities present if you decide to take it. Be warned tho, everyone around you is going to be thinking of investment banking / buy-side PE or VC. And it is very hard to get internships into quant roles coming from an economics degree right away. But LSE is the best way to learn cutting edge economics and finance and take it onwards to a masters program to develop quant skills.

Let me know if you would like to know anything else, I know what it feels like being in your shoes.

 

[ParticlePhynance]

Hi, thank you so much for your response, it really helped me even if I was not the original poster. I was hoping to confirm what S&T means? Thanks!

You're welcome. S&T = sales and trading, which can have varying degrees of quanty-ness depending on the desk you intern at. My sister specifically rotated in rates sales and cash equities

 

[QuantCommie]

Hi all,

I'm 18, have just received my A-levels and am about to start BSc Economics at LSE in September. I definitely want to work in finance and am presently between trying to become an investment banker or a quant. I had already applied to Economics degrees by the time I started really looking into career paths and am now slightly worries that not taking maths or computer science will limit my career prospects as a quant.

I really enjoyed studying double maths at A-level and achieved A*A*. I understand the Economics course at LSE is quite mathsy and intend to make it as much so as possible. I also understand (largely from QN) the importance of a MSc in Maths/Financial Mathematics/Statistics/Maths and Computing etc. so hope to apply to one of these degrees after my undergraduate. I've kind of assumed that spring weeks and generic steps towards investment banking/finance, teaching myself programming and finding ways to put more maths in my degree will help with this.

My question comes in two parts:
1) Will it be harder for me to apply to competitive universities (Imperial College London, Oxbridge, LSE again) on relevant and renowned masters courses for having a degree in Economics instead of Mathematics?
2) Will undergraduate Economics limit my career prospects (independent of or with a decent masters) as a quant?

Any advice would be much appreciate and I hope you're all having an awesome day.

Thanks gs

The only economics degree that has weight in quant is the economics degree from UChicago and I assume this is only relevant to the United States.

 

[MikeLawrence]

You can get through an Econ degree at my school without knowing any stats beyond a box plot and any calc beyond basic integration.

They claim to 'cover' partial differentiation in intermediate micro... but I've seen it and it doesn't count.

I'm technically a business student but after I figured out where the rigor resided in different departments I'm trying to swerve out of all the business courses I can. Except for one financial modeling course which actually does some cool stuff with excel that I'll take just for the excel reps.
They said they cover through 'stochastic calculus with Monte Carlo' but I know every student in that class didn't go past calc I, and most have never seriously coded in their lives, so the Crystal Ball add-in had to be doing some real heavy lifting. The people I talked to really didn't know what was up. Either way, I want to check it out just to see what he actually covers.