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MFE right after electrical engineering undergrad?

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7/20/16
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Hey guys,

So I'm a rising sophomore at a semi-target (top 50) school doing an EE degree. I'm doing very well so far (4.0 GPA, had a high school and freshman summer internship). However, I've figured out that I don't actually want to do engineering FT. My favorite parts of EE are the math, signal processing, and machine learning aspects. My dream job is to be a quant.

That being said, I'm trying to figure out the best path to take for my undergraduate and grad degrees. Here are the paths I can think of:
  • Graduate with EE degree and either a math or data analytics minor in 3.5 years total. Then do a MFE or MFin at a more prestigious school and shoot straight for a quant position
  • Graduate with EE and either a math or data analytics minor in 3.5 years and try for IB right after college. Then after a couple years try to move to buy side
  • Graduate with a dual degree in EE and Finance in 4.5 years total. Then either try to shoot straight for a quant position or go for IB first then try to break in.
Can anyone offer some insight? I don't really know that much about the career paths/options for a quant, so maybe these two paths aren't the best ways I could do it. Thanks
 
Last edited:
Do the BSEE + MFE route.

IB won't help you become a quant.
 
Two Sigma, I have seen. D.E. Shaw, I have not. In any case many of the people coming out of MFE going to those places have PhDs.
 
Do funds like Two Sigma and Shaw recruit top MFE grads for a first FT job (i.e., the undergrads who went straight to MFE)?
No. If you are unbelievably good, you might be able to get in as a trader with MFE (or connections). Otherwise basically all quants have Ph.D.'s.
 
The answer is yes, there is. Just google linkedin profiles of people with the company you'd like to apply for and the top MFE programs that you want to apply for. In fact, both Two Sigma and Shaw recruit at the undergraduate level even -- it's just that there are very few positions. The interviews are similar to (but a couple of levels more difficult than) IB S&T interviews.

To your original question, here's another path that I've seen some people in your position take -- transfer to a target school by junior year. It'll be easier to find out information about the industry since top firms are coming to campus to recruit.
 
To your original question, here's another path that I've seen some people in your position take -- transfer to a target school by junior year. It'll be easier to find out information about the industry since top firms are coming to campus to recruit.

Did that work out well for them?

Transferring is definitely something I'm considering. Statistically it is very unlikely that I'll get accepted as a transfer for EE or EECS to MIT/Columbia/Stanford/Penn, but the opportunity is probably worth the $80 per app.

Also I would like more challenging courses than I'm getting at my current school.

One concern I have with transferring is that it might take me much longer to finish my degree. At my current school, I can finish my EE with a relevant minor in 3.5 years total including two 6 month co-ops. If I transfer, I might end up in school for 4.5 years or so.

At that point, it might be more beneficial to finish my undergrad at my current school and go to a target for a masters right?
 
I have no idea if it's "worthwhile" to transfer. That means different things to different people. You'll have access to more information but you'll be directly competing against a stronger pool of applicants during the OCR process. I would expect on average you'll find more employment opportunity.

I have no idea what your profile is, but if you think it's unlikely that you get into one of the schools that you listed, it'll be much harder statistically to get into DE Shaw or Two Sigma directly. Without really knowing anything about you, I'd say it's also more likely than not that you do find a front office opportunity at an IB after graduation.

Why not apply for both jobs and schools and then compare your choices? That's what most people do I imagine. I know people who have stayed an extra year for the sole purpose of having another shot at on campus recruiting, and I know people who have rushed to graduate a year early because they were lucky enough to get a great internship sophomore summer and convert that into a full time offer.
 
I have no idea if it's "worthwhile" to transfer. That means different things to different people. You'll have access to more information but you'll be directly competing against a stronger pool of applicants during the OCR process. I would expect on average you'll find more employment opportunity.

I have no idea what your profile is, but if you think it's unlikely that you get into one of the schools that you listed, it'll be much harder statistically to get into DE Shaw or Two Sigma directly. Without really knowing anything about you, I'd say it's also more likely than not that you do find a front office opportunity at an IB after graduation.

I do believe that I'd be a very competitive transfer applicant. I was just referencing the very low transfer acceptance rates for those colleges, which are all around the lower single digits.

I do plan on applying for both and sending out the transfer apps. I want to finalize my Fall schedule though and there's one class that is dependent on what path I choose to take. If I do just an EE, I'd take a math course. If I do a dual-degree with EE and Finance, I'd take a business class.

I'm leaning towards just throwing out the finance dual-degree idea. It would help me get into I-banking, but most of the classes I would have to take for that would be useless.
 
Great, glad to hear it. I think I might have mentioned it in a previous comment, but there are also quantitative roles at investment banks, such as the analyst role in Goldman's QIS group. You shouldn't view the analyst program at investment banks purely as a stepping stone.

Yes, I agree most of the material that you learn in finance won't be useful in a practical setting. However, I also doubt that anything in an upper level math course will likely be very useful outside of an academic setting. I think that even if you were to take the BSEE route, taking one extra course in quant finance would be appropriate -- it demonstrates your interest in finance when you are applying for finance jobs.

Talk to your academic counselor to explain your situation, maybe they can allow you to be more flexible with when you take your courses and how many course you can take. My counselor in college was very helpful in helping me make my schedule. I had attended college at one of the schools that you listed above and I had planned to sub-matriculate into a MS on top of getting my double degree. I made the decision pretty late though (first half of my sophomore year), so I had to take twice the number of courses that I was supposed to originally take in my junior year. It was a hassle though because you had to make sure your courses you wanted to take didn't overlap, and then basically ask the professor for priority in getting the course timeslot that you wanted. -- Basically what I'm saying is: figure out what you want to do, and then figure out how to make that possible.
 
Great, glad to hear it. I think I might have mentioned it in a previous comment, but there are also quantitative roles at investment banks, such as the analyst role in Goldman's QIS group. You shouldn't view the analyst program at investment banks purely as a stepping stone.

Will definitely keep this in mind when applying for internships.

Yes, I agree most of the material that you learn in finance won't be useful in a practical setting. However, I also doubt that anything in an upper level math course will likely be very useful outside of an academic setting. I think that even if you were to take the BSEE route, taking one extra course in quant finance would be appropriate -- it demonstrates your interest in finance when you are applying for finance jobs.

Talk to your academic counselor to explain your situation, maybe they can allow you to be more flexible with when you take your courses and how many course you can take. My counselor in college was very helpful in helping me make my schedule. I had attended college at one of the schools that you listed above and I had planned to sub-matriculate into a MS on top of getting my double degree. I made the decision pretty late though (first half of my sophomore year), so I had to take twice the number of courses that I was supposed to originally take in my junior year. It was a hassle though because you had to make sure your courses you wanted to take didn't overlap, and then basically ask the professor for priority in getting the course timeslot that you wanted. -- Basically what I'm saying is: figure out what you want to do, and then figure out how to make that possible.

The problem with my college's business school is that everyone gets a degree in Business Administration, with a concentration in whatever field they choose. Since it's a general degree, you are required to take a course or two from every field of business (i.e. marketing, supply chain management).

So if I were to add a degree in Business Administration with a concentration in Finance, I'd take 15 business courses total and only 5 would be actual finance courses. The 5 finance courses I would take are financial management, corporate finance, investments, and two electives (choice out of Financial Risk Management, IB, M&A, Valuation and Value Creation, Credit Analysis, Risk management + Insurance). I am very interested in the finance classes, but I feel like I'd wasting my time and money going through the general business bs.

On the other hand, an MFE would take the same amount of time to complete and would be specifically focused on finance. Plus, I get a chance to re-brand with a target school and go through OCR there provided transferring doesn't work out.

I really like the idea of adding a quant finance elective to my BSEE. I'll try asking my advisors but I feel like they won't have the power to place me in one of the higher level finance courses. The quant finance courses offered (like the risk management), all have a mountain of pre-reqs beneath them that I'd have to try and get around. Right now, I don't have any finance on my resume. The only thing I have that could demonstrate interest is the couple FE MOOCs I did, my personal trading account, and the stuff I read on Stratechery and WSJ.
 
Good luck with everything. Most people are ambitious, but it takes a lot of persistence, hardwork and luck to get to where you want to go.

Thanks for all of your input and advice, I very much appreciate it.

Don't be surprised if I can reply back in a couple years letting you know how it went.
 
Transferring is a messy business and you will lose lot of credits & there is course matching required. I would rather try to get the degree done at current institution than rocking the boat needlessly. If you can keep it above 3.80..You have a shot at all the top school including Berkeley & Princeton.



Did that work out well for them?

Transferring is definitely something I'm considering. Statistically it is very unlikely that I'll get accepted as a transfer for EE or EECS to MIT/Columbia/Stanford/Penn, but the opportunity is probably worth the $80 per app.

Also I would like more challenging courses than I'm getting at my current school.

One concern I have with transferring is that it might take me much longer to finish my degree. At my current school, I can finish my EE with a relevant minor in 3.5 years total including two 6 month co-ops. If I transfer, I might end up in school for 4.5 years or so.

At that point, it might be more beneficial to finish my undergrad at my current school and go to a target for a masters right?
 
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