COMPARE NYU MSMF vs Columbia MFE

[hulim]

Would you mind sharing your timeline? i.e. submission date, interview invitation data, admission date. Also, did you receive an email to ask you to check for status or you login into the website? Congrats!

For NYU Courant: submitted on Jan 20th, received decision on Feb 20th; for Columbia: submitted on Jan 1st, interviewed on Feb 4th, received an email and checked status online on Feb 28th.

 

[hulim]

Hi everybody, I am writing to ask for some suggestions on NYU Math in Finance vs Columbia MFE. I received admissions from both programs recently, but I have not decided which one to go. Could you please share some views on the courses, career service, internships&job placements of both programs.

Thank you so much. Wish everyone have a dream offer~
p.s. My BG some of you might be interested in: Cambridge Math Part iii， GRE 328， some quant internships

Hi Alice, have you decided yet? I am leaning toward NYU but I found that 28 students out of 41 in NYU courant were still looking for 2019 summer internship (Class of 2019, probably NYU does not update this website very often). I will send an email to NYU on Monday and ask for the latest statistics if available. For Columbia, one major concern is that the class size is increasing every year. Using the information on Quantnet, class size is 80+ in 2017, 100+ in 2018 and 120+ in 2019.

 

[idkmyname]

Congrats! I personally prefer NYU cause I'm a math person, and Courant Institute is my dream. NYU has a smaller class size. But Columbia's name is very attractive, plus it's Ivy league. They are both top programs. You can check their coursework and see which one attracts you more.

 

[Gaunter]

Hi Alice, have you decided yet? I am leaning toward NYU but I found that 28 students out of 41 in NYU courant were still looking for 2019 summer internship (Class of 2019, probably NYU does not update this website very often). I will send an email to NYU on Monday and ask for the latest statistics if available. For Columbia, one major concern is that the class size is increasing every year. Using the information on Quantnet, class size is 80+ in 2017, 100+ in 2018 and 120+ in 2019.

Did they send you the latest statistics? On their website it's still 28 out of 41 looking for internships

 

[FrozenZ]

The key to every choice is your preference combined with hardcore conditions. In general, Columbia MFE and NYU MathFin are in the same tier. But once you list out their features, you could choose with your personal preference.

NYU MathFin:
*Course: Very math, very theoretical
*Class size: 40, small class
*Career service: At least better than Columbia MFE

Columbia MFE:
**big name as Ivy.
**Good Alumni Resource
**High base salary.
**Class Size: 120, very big class, very competitive.

It's only a matter of your preference. If you care very much about name and alumni network, you should go ahead with Columbia MFE without doubt. But if you pursue a academic experience with a higher quality, I believe NYU MathFin is a good way to go.

 

[Risky Business]

The key to every choice is your preference combined with hardcore conditions. In general, Columbia MFE and NYU MathFin are in the same tier. But once you list out their features, you could choose with your personal preference.

NYU MathFin:
*Course: Very math, very theoretical
*Class size: 40, small class
*Career service: At least better than Columbia MFE

Columbia MFE:
**big name as Ivy.
**Good Alumni Resource
**High base salary.
**Class Size: 120, very big class, very competitive.

It's only a matter of your preference. If you care very much about name and alumni network, you should go ahead with Columbia MFE without doubt. But if you pursue a academic experience with a higher quality, I believe NYU MathFin is a good way to go.

One thing I would add is that NYU requires you to do a Master thesis which would prevent you from taking other classes. Besides this (which is kind of a big thing for me), I do prefer NYU.

 

[cl_nyc]

In terms of placement, they probably place about the same. My heavily-opinionated observations below, so please take with a grain of salt...

A handful of better business communicators, kids who interview well, will land summer internship offers from the large sell-side firms and a couple big-name buy-side firms before Christmas. The quantity of these positions is not that large (probably <100 positions spread across the banks, hedge funds, prop trading firms, other asset managers targeting financial engineering students), so the top students in Columbia/NYU/MSCF/Princeton/MIT/Berkeley get offers during this time.

The rest (probably 60-70%) will end up looking throughout Jan-Apr, going through a bunch of interviews for smaller sellside/buyside firms, or mutual fund/pension fund-like asset managers, or fintech firms like Bloomberg, Reuters for positions that often don't need financial engineering. One thing students don't seem to realize is that aside from risk or derivatives-pricing quant roles (which there are few), most roles aren't really heavy math/quant. Many are more data science-like now, so you're not only competing against MFE, IOER, MAFN, Finance students, but also Data Science (Machine Learning), Computer Science, and Statistics students. It's not even limited to graduate school competition. At the end of the day, an entry level role requires a lot of investment and training from the firm, and if a kid from a decent undergrad with a good GPA and decent dataset-wrangling experience can do the job, with no need for work visa sponsorship, that kid will be preferred for the internship and subsequent full-time position. Lower salary, better business communication, no work sponsorship risk with this administration. The pool of competition seems rather tough right now given the size of all the university's many quant or statistics-related programs. Every student sitting in a machine learning or data structures and algorithms, or even a statistics course with a smidgeon of interest in finance is vying for the same quant-related roles.

Placement comes down to you individually -- are you good at interviewing? If you're shy and/or have poor spoken/written English, you'll probably still be looking for internships come March.

 

[FrozenZ]

One thing I would add is that NYU requires you to do a Master thesis which would prevent you from taking other classes. Besides this (which is kind of a big thing for me), I do prefer NYU.

I believe you do have a point

 

[hulim]

Did they send you the latest statistics? On their website it's still 28 out of 41 looking for internships

They told me that the statistics online was not updated and they were still collecting info from recent grads. As NYU provides a full list of their students, I searched their names on Linkedin and found that probably Courant's website was updated before Dec 2018 as some students' Linkedin profiles (among those 28 students) indicated that they found a summer internship in Dec. I also found that a few students in previous classes had perfect academic performance (GPA 3.9+) but limited or even no finance or quant related experience before joining NYU Courant. I believe this could be one of the reasons that they are still looking for internship/full-time positions. Also, I heard that the target class size for 2019 Fall Columbia MFE program is only 80.

 

[Tigggger_Z]

They told me that the statistics online was not updated and they were still collecting info from recent grads. As NYU provides a full list of their students, I searched their names on Linkedin and found that probably Courant's website was updated before Dec 2018 as some students' Linkedin profiles (among those 28 students) indicated that they found a summer internship in Dec. I also found that a few students in previous classes had perfect academic performance (GPA 3.9+) but limited or even no finance or quant related experience before joining NYU Courant. I believe this could be one of the reasons that they are still looking for internship/full-time positions. Also, I heard that the target class size for 2019 Fall Columbia MFE program is only 80.

Could you please give me a rough number of the students who have found their internships but still display their resume on the official website?
Stuck with the problem now.

 

[Ann Z]

They told me that the statistics online was not updated and they were still collecting info from recent grads. As NYU provides a full list of their students, I searched their names on Linkedin and found that probably Courant's website was updated before Dec 2018 as some students' Linkedin profiles (among those 28 students) indicated that they found a summer internship in Dec. I also found that a few students in previous classes had perfect academic performance (GPA 3.9+) but limited or even no finance or quant related experience before joining NYU Courant. I believe this could be one of the reasons that they are still looking for internship/full-time positions. Also, I heard that the target class size for 2019 Fall Columbia MFE program is only 80.

From where did you hear that their target class size is 80?

 

[Wentworth]

Hi there, this year I've heard more than three times that MFE@Columbia has cut down its targeted class size to 80. How did you get this info?
Besides, I've heard another explanation that every year they set their targeted size to 80 but it eventually became a class of 120 students. Is this true?

 

[hulim]

Could you please give me a rough number of the students who have found their internships but still display their resume on the official website?
Stuck with the problem now.

2 or 3 maybe? Most people have not updated their Linkedin pages yet. Once you done some research on Linkedin, you won't feel surprised that a few students are still looking for internship. Those students have very limited knowledge and experience about quantitative finance before NYU courant. So I believe it is still a very good program. It seems that students with some relevant experience before are able to secure an internship position during the first semester.

 

[hulim]

From where did you hear that their target class size is 80?

From the student ambassador and some current students. It seems that the admission committee has told them the class size for 2019 fall will be 80.

 

[Tigggger_Z]

2 or 3 maybe? Most people have not updated their Linkedin pages yet. Once you done some research on Linkedin, you won't feel surprised that a few students are still looking for internship. Those students have very limited knowledge and experience about quantitative finance before NYU courant. So I believe it is still a very good program. It seems that students with some relevant experience before are able to secure an internship position during the first semester.

Thank you for your share!
Also, I concurred with your opinion that students' experiences and skills are the decisive factor of whether or not they can find internships. Courant shouldn't take the fall for that. However, program's obsession with students' scores on mathematical courses is another story, cos that is why those unemployed students were picked to the program in the first place.

 

[Rohittttt]

From the student ambassador and some current students. It seems that the admission committee has told them the class size for 2019 fall will be 80.

Hi, Even I was communicated this info from a current student studying in MFE program.

 

[cywang]

Hi guys,

I've recently been admitted to both programs. But I can't really decide which program to go to. I'll appreciate any advice!

 

[cheron_jrm]

First, congratulation for your admits ! Both programs have strong placements and a good curriculum so whatever your choice is, it will be good !
I would personnaly go for NYU because the curriculum seems more data-oriented, which may provide you with a skillset that is more interesting for recruiters.

 

[cywang]

First, congratulation for your admits ! Both programs have strong placements and a good curriculum so whatever your choice is, it will be good !
I would personnaly go for NYU because the curriculum seems more data-oriented, which may provide you with a skillset that is more interesting for recruiters.

Thank you!

 

[binomial-torrent]

a kid from a decent undergrad with a good GPA and decent dataset-wrangling experience can do the job

as someone who fits this profile and works at a smaller asset manager now (life is good) after moving from a big name buy-side firm, i’m going to have an unpopular opinion here and say ask yourself if:

offers from the large sell-side firms and a couple big-name buy-side firms before Christmas. The quantity of these positions is not that large (probably <100 positions spread across the banks, hedge funds, prop trading firms, other asset managers targeting financial engineering students)

is what you really want (personally, i kind of doubt it at this point), grass always greener on the other side. they will expect a lot from you and despite the high comp, the ratio of your comp vs what you generate for the firm will be very low. you will be worked to the bone, and even if it’s 8-9 hours a day at the ones that care about balance, you will still be mentally exhausted from being at 90+% capacity the whole day. and if you’re not good, you will be gone in 3-6 months, i've seen it happen. doesnt matter how good you are at interviewing.

the putnam winners, ivy league prestige grads, hotshot phds, top percentile of mfe, etc. who line the halls of citadel, DE shaw (cannot think of a more fitting example of everything below...), GS, etc. are balls of anxiety and despite the incredible level of specialized ability, lack the critical thinking to, say, realize that the played-up high level math that people on the outside think quants constantly utilize can be just used for political reasons such as luring investors. see: dilbert comics, ironically written by an MBA...

i think @bigbadwolf can back me up on this