Quantitative Finance or Corporate Finance?

[zeke]

Hello everyone,

I am not very familiar with Finance and would like some input from you all in which course to go for.

I'm from the UK and I would like to hopefully go into work in an IB or Consultancy once I finish my education. Currently I'm in my final year of an undergraduate degree in Politics and will be going on to study for an MSc in International Political Economy at a highly prestigious top school who are known to be an IB producer. I've also done introductory courses on Microeconomics and Macroeconomics and will be taking and online course with Harvard Business School called (HBX) CORe, over the course of this summer. This includes modules on Financial Accounting, Economics for Managers and Business Analytics.

After the HBX course I would like to either study for one final extra-curricular course, which is either a Postgraduate Certificate in Corporate Finance at the University of Liverpool or a Postgraduate Diploma in Quantitative Finance at SOAS. Both are online courses, both are the same length and both cost the same. I would like to know which one would be more worthwhile and which would be more reputable (the University doesn't matter). Could anyone also explain the difference between both courses? I know one is more quantitative, but does corporate finance involve any quantitative material at all? I'd also like to point out that my quantitative skills are next to nothing and is the main reason I'll be taking the HBX course. Not to mention that my undergraduate degree also doesn't contain any quant material.
Also, I may sound naive, but what kind of roles can both these courses offer me, if we were to say that I get an opportunity at an IB?

In my situation, with my background in Politics, would it be better if I chose Corporate Finance? Or would Quantitative Finance be better just to show that I possess the necessary quant skills needed in IB?



Links for both courses:
http://www.cefims.ac.uk/cgi-bin/prog...rogramme&id=46
https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/study/on...odule-details/

 

[zeke]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that Liverpool also does a PGCert in International Accounting & Finance, which may be more relevant to me. The link to the course is: Online Postgraduate Certificate in International Accounting and Finance | The University of Liverpool

I would really appreciate if anyone could go through the links I've given, look at the course modules and give me a recommendation of which would be my best bet.

Thanks.

 

[MichaelLewis]

Given your background, I'd say your best chance of success is with Consulting. Quantitative finance is incredibly challenging even for people with expert mathematical aptitude. I'd even say that, given your background, you'll have a hard time breaking into IB, particularly if you haven't done an internship. You certainly need financial knowledge to work in either field and, corporate finance is completely different than both IB and quantitative finance. Unless your willing to forgo a masters in Political Economy in favor of a quantitative discipline, focus your efforts on gaining a consulting internship.

 

[zeke]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. As you may know, getting an internship is harder for me than probably finishing my degree with top marks. I will make an attempt again during my masters to secure an internship, but my non-finance background makes it hard for me to be looked in favour over others.

Anyway, forgetting quantitative finance for a second, if I were to do a course, what kind of finance would I need to study? would you be able to name some of the basics modules or topics that I should know?

I'm keen on studying Political Economy as I find the subject fascinating and the main reason for me studying it is because, sometime in the distant future after I'm hopefully done earning enough money to be able to live not worrying about money, I'd like to go into work at the IMF or World Bank. And I see a 20 year or so career in Finance/Consulting as a good precursor to this.


Thanks again.

 

[MichaelLewis]

As you stated, your non-financial background makes it hard for you even to get an internship. I can assure you that actually landing a paid job as an IBanker is significantly harder. You don't simply walk into an IBanking interview with no finance background, no internship, and no connections. Frankly, it simply doesn't happen. You won't even get invited to an interview let alone get the chance to hopefully impress someone during an interview. Let's say you do get an interview, you'll be asked accounting questions, time-value of money questions, valuation questions, among others. These topics are incredibly important for IBankers and not something you can pick up in one class. Truthfully, if you can't tell me about the financial statements, how they all flow together, and the different techniques and assumptions that go into them that can affect how a company might be valued, you won't get a job. It sounds like you're putting 99% of your effort into Political Economy and want to put 1% of your effort into Finance. Given this, what do you realistically think the odds that your 1% of Finance knowledge goes to 100% (landing a job) or going to 0% (not getting a job)? I don't mean to sound abrupt, but it seems as though you have a rose-colored view of the world and often times you need to take a step back and look at what actually right in front of you. Right now, you have no finance skills and want to land a job in one of the most competitive financial fields in the world where you'll be competing against people who have studied finance all through school, who have done internships, and have connections. If you really want this, scrap Political Economy and do a masters in Finance and network like crazy. You should also look into an online course called Breaking Into Wall Street.

 

[zeke]

The problem is that I feel a Masters in Political Economy at LSE holds more value than a Masters in Finance at say a mid-tier University.

I understand your concerns that I'm being naive about my worldview. But this is the reason why I've decided to study extra postgraduate courses on Finance. At LSE, I'm able to choose some outside options and will try my best to take some finance classes whilst I'm there.

With regards to networking, I don't really have any links to IB, except for a family friend who works as a programmer at Deutsche Bank. And I'm not really sure if he'd be able to pull any strings for me. I will ask about opportunities half way through my studies at LSE.

I think you're wrong about people in IB having studied finance their whole lives, unless you are strictly speaking of the actual "investment bankers". Which I did not specifically state, and would like to say that any department in Middle Office would be an amazing opportunity for me. I know some people who have studied economics, and political economy who now work in MO at places like JP Morgan. But these people I think had an advantage, thanks to their quantitative modules in their undergraduate economics degree.

And that is why, I asked, exactly what kind of finance would be beneficial for me to learn? Just to add that little extra bit of quantitative skill.

Finally, I took a look at the "Breaking into Wall Street" courses and it looks very interesting. I will be looking at taking some, like the networking one and thank you for that.

**edit**
Also I'd like to point out your concerns on knowing about financial statements et al. I think after I complete the HBX course, I'll have a more solid understanding about the things you named.

 

[tfors]

I don't know if it's still the case, but I once met a guy in investment banking years ago (mergers & acquisitions) who studied medieval literature at an elite university and apparently this was not unusual at all.

 

[MichaelLewis]

The problem is that I feel a Masters in Political Economy at LSE holds more value than a Masters in Finance at say a mid-tier University.

I understand your concerns that I'm being naive about my worldview. But this is the reason why I've decided to study extra postgraduate courses on Finance. At LSE, I'm able to choose some outside options and will try my best to take some finance classes whilst I'm there.

With regards to networking, I don't really have any links to IB, except for a family friend who works as a programmer at Deutsche Bank. And I'm not really sure if he'd be able to pull any strings for me. I will ask about opportunities half way through my studies at LSE.

I think you're wrong about people in IB having studied finance their whole lives, unless you are strictly speaking of the actual "investment bankers". Which I did not specifically state, and would like to say that any department in Middle Office would be an amazing opportunity for me. I know some people who have studied economics, and political economy who now work in MO at places like JP Morgan. But these people I think had an advantage, thanks to their quantitative modules in their undergraduate economics degree.

And that is why, I asked, exactly what kind of finance would be beneficial for me to learn? Just to add that little extra bit of quantitative skill.

Finally, I took a look at the "Breaking into Wall Street" courses and it looks very interesting. I will be looking at taking some, like the networking one and thank you for that.

**edit**
Also I'd like to point out your concerns on knowing about financial statements et al. I think after I complete the HBX course, I'll have a more solid understanding about the things you named.

I wish you the best of luck, but it will be tough. I strongly urge you to put a tremendous amount of effort towards networking and getting an internship. There are diminishing marginal returns on your grade point average. So, assuming you have something like a 3.5 out of 4.0 (US scale), then you'll be better served by networking and gaining an internship than by studying an extra few hours to get the A instead of A-. Nowadays, most people who successfully get into investment banks do so because they have internship experience. If you can't get an internship, the odds of getting a job are very low. And, depends on what type of job you're going for in regards to what courses to study.

 

[zeke]

Thank you both for the input. I guess I'll do some shorter courses in the fundamentals of finance and hope networking works out. Can any of you explain to me the basics of networking, or will I find all I need to know on the "breaking into Wall Street" website?

Also, I believe there to be an ongoing IB recruitment campaign that takes place continuously at LSE, so I'll hopefully able to get something out of that.

 

[MichaelLewis]

Thank you both for the input. I guess I'll do some shorter courses in the fundamentals of finance and hope networking works out. Can any of you explain to me the basics of networking, or will I find all I need to know on the "breaking into Wall Street" website?

Also, I believe there to be an ongoing IB recruitment campaign that takes place continuously at LSE, so I'll hopefully able to get something out of that.

Use the resources at LSE. That will be your best chance. If you look hard enough there, you should find plenty of opportunity to network...It's LSE after all.