Can Bsc. Finance (Non-STEM) possibly pursue MFE or Master of Quant. Finance?

[Tran Le]

I am a sophomore international student majoring in Finance, with a minor in pure Math and a concentration in FinTech (from a non-target US NU). I am considering pursuing a master's in MFE or a Master of Quant Finance.

I understand those masters require math and computational knowledge, so I am trying to take as many classes as possible.
In my junior and senior years, I will select 4 math classes from these options: Calculus II (I already took Calculus I in high school), Linear Algebra I & II, Probability, Statistic, Multivariable Calculus I & II. I will also take 1 "Advanced Python for Business class" and 1 "Algorithmic Trading" for FinTech concentration. One thing is my college does not allow students to take a double major in 4 years, but it has to be 5 years. That's a reason why I only chose to do a Math minor instead of a double major in Math.

Is it possible for me to get into any top FE or Quant Finance masters program, given that I am a non-STEM (Finance) major and only have a Math minor with little coding background? I will also try to self-learn Python and C+ during the summer.

What should I do to improve my profile as an undergraduate to demonstrate my quantitative and coding ability? And what math classes above should I choose? I am also interested in IB, but the competitiveness and limitations for international students give me a hard time with 2024 and 2025 internships (still in progress but hopeless).

Thank you for your recommendations!

 

[MichaelLewis]

I am a sophomore international student majoring in Finance, with a minor in pure Math and a concentration in FinTech (from a non-target US NU). I am considering pursuing a master's in MFE or a Master of Quant Finance.

I understand those masters require math and computational knowledge, so I am trying to take as many classes as possible.
In my junior and senior years, I will select 4 math classes from these options: Calculus II (I already took Calculus I in high school), Linear Algebra I & II, Probability, Statistic, Multivariable Calculus I & II. I will also take 1 "Advanced Python for Business class" and 1 "Algorithmic Trading" for FinTech concentration. One thing is my college does not allow students to take a double major in 4 years, but it has to be 5 years. That's a reason why I only chose to do a Math minor instead of a double major in Math.

Is it possible for me to get into any top FE or Quant Finance masters program, given that I am a non-STEM (Finance) major and only have a Math minor with little coding background? I will also try to self-learn Python and C+ during the summer.

What should I do to improve my profile as an undergraduate to demonstrate my quantitative and coding ability? And what math classes above should I choose? I am also interested in IB, but the competitiveness and limitations for international students give me a hard time with 2024 and 2025 internships (still in progress but hopeless).

Thank you for your recommendations!

Why not switch.

Major in Math, minor in Finance. You’ll save yourself a lot of suffering and time later on.

 

[MikeLawrence]

Why not switch.

Major in Math, minor in Finance. You’ll save yourself a lot of suffering and time later on.

This, do this.
Well, close to this.
Drop Finance like a hot potato and add statistics, or just take more math courses since you'll be joining late anyway. Also take the C++ courses here on QN.

This career path cannot be half-arsed.

Even if you did all of the courses you just listed, instead of picking four, you would still not meet the bare minimum requirements for MFE programs as you'd lack ODE/PDE knowledge.

 

[YZhao]

This, do this.
Well, close to this.
Drop Finance like a hot potato and add statistics, or just take more math courses since you'll be joining late anyway. Also take the C++ courses here on QN.

This career path cannot be half-arsed.

Even if you did all of the courses you just listed, instead of picking four, you would still not meet the bare minimum requirements for MFE programs as you'd lack ODE/PDE knowledge.

I worry more about measure and probability theory… in practice ODE / PDE cannot be used in a multi underlying cases and is usually less important comparing to grasp of probability theorem in my opinion

 

[MikeLawrence]

I worry more about measure and probability theory… in practice ODE / PDE cannot be used in a multi underlying cases and is usually less important comparing to grasp of probability theorem in my opinion

In practice, 95% of quants don't know measure or probability theory either. I mean very basic ODE/PDE stuff, like solving BSM equation without actually knowing the underlying theoretical proof. OP won't be able to solve an equidimensional equation, or a separable one.

 

[Tran Le]

My college has a good reputation in Finance (and Business School overall) and a bad reputation in STEM majors, especially Math and CompSci majors (many students confirm). And sadly, my school has no Statistic major.
Additionally, STEM students in my college have to take more and heavier liberal arts courses (catholic college), so if I major in Math, I have to take one more year just to cover those extra liberal arts courses. So it's a waste of time.

This leads to my fear: dropping a well-known and reputational major to pursue the not-so-good major in my college. Should I make this decision? I just declared my major, so I am not sure I can switch now, but I will ask the advisor again.

I am taking the Math minor because I hope it qualifies for the requirements of Calculus, Linear Algebra, and one or two coding classes (Fintech concentration). If this requirement is wrong, please correct me.

 

[Lukee]

If you're certain that you want to pursue an MFE then you're going to need calculus up to multivariate, linear algebra, differential equations, and a calc-based probability course at the bare minimum. See if its possible to take these with your current major

 

[Areohfore]

I am taking the Math minor because I hope it qualifies for the requirements of Calculus, Linear Algebra, and one or two coding classes (Fintech concentration). If this requirement is wrong, please correct me.

From what I've read on here, you need more than just Calc 2 and Linear Algebra. You'll definitely need Multivariable Calc and Differential Equations classes. Statistics/probability classes that teach things like random variables, distributions, Markov chains, etc. are important as well. My understanding is that quantitative roles focus on mathematical modeling and the programming that surrounds that; finance classes will teach you how to read financial statements and value corporations, but it won't give you the mathematical foundation to go for quant roles.

I was in a similar boat to you, though I had a CS major and no time penalty for double majoring. Every source I read told me to add another, more math-based major, and that's exactly what I did. I agree with the others saying to drop the Finance major and to go for a full math major if you're really dedicated to quant. A double major might not be necessary if you can take those stats classes, perhaps as a part of a minor, or as straight up elective classes. However, most of the finance classes really don't teach you applicable skills for a quant job.

 

[MikeLawrence]

If your deadset on a more quantitative job, broadening out from just quantitative finance, I'd transfer schools.

 

[MichaelLewis]

If your deadset on a more quantitative job, broadening out from just quantitative finance, I'd transfer schools.

Was just about to say the same thing.

If you continue down your current path, you will not meet the requirements to actually get a job in quantitative finance or an MFE.

So you’ll spend two years after you graduate taking all the course you’re not taking now. And they will be valued less because they’re going to be part of some online curriculum like Udacity, or some certificate course from a university. And those make much less of an impression.

Suffer a little now or suffer significantly later. Most people choose the latter because of short term decision making. But the former is much better in the long run.

 

[redoctober]

I’m in a similar boat as you coming from a non-target major and non-target university and I disagree with what most are saying.

I do agree if you’re dead set on quant and you have the opportunity to, switch to a more quant oriented major like math or stats, even at another school. Don’t worry if it sets you back a year or two. I wish I had. If you feel like you’re unable to switch for whatever reason, thats fine, you CAN still make it work, it’s just going to be more work.

Personally I only have Calc 2, Linear algebra, Calc Probability, and a lot of Stats/econometrics as my official courses on my transcript. I say you need these as the bare minimum, excluding the excess of econometrics. I have no advance calc (multivariable, ODE/PDE) and no coding classes officially. According to some above, I would have no chance at an MFE, but I feel like I’m holding on pretty good in this admissions cycle for T10 MFE programs despite how competitive it is.

That being said I’ve self-studied the material or have work experience with it but MFE admissions don’t really care about self-study. I took a lot of extra courses outside of school (incl. QN’s C++ which I do recommend), had strong non-quant but relevant internships, and participated in quant research at my university. The only school I’ve applied to that requested I take an official PDE class is UCB (among other classes in their list I’ve already self-studied or have extensive experience with).

Just look at class profiles of strong programs. Finance is the #2 undergrad major for CMU, makes up 9% of undergrad majors at UCB, UChicago even has Accounting majors. Don’t get me wrong, you have to do more to prove yourself to others, but I strongly disagree with anyone who says you have no chance.

 

[CraigEpstein]

I’m in a similar boat as you coming from a non-target major and non-target university and I disagree with what most are saying.

I do agree if you’re dead set on quant and you have the opportunity to, switch to a more quant oriented major like math or stats, even at another school. Don’t worry if it sets you back a year or two. I wish I had. If you feel like you’re unable to switch for whatever reason, thats fine, you CAN still make it work, it’s just going to be more work.

Personally I only have Calc 2, Linear algebra, Calc Probability, and a lot of Stats/econometrics as my official courses on my transcript. I say you need these as the bare minimum, excluding the excess of econometrics. I have no advance calc (multivariable, ODE/PDE) and no coding classes officially. According to some above, I would have no chance at an MFE, but I feel like I’m holding on pretty good in this admissions cycle for T10 MFE programs despite how competitive it is.

That being said I’ve self-studied the material or have work experience with it but MFE admissions don’t really care about self-study. I took a lot of extra courses outside of school (incl. QN’s C++ which I do recommend), had strong non-quant but relevant internships, and participated in quant research at my university. The only school I’ve applied to that requested I take an official PDE class is UCB (among other classes in their list I’ve already self-studied or have extensive experience with).

Just look at class profiles of strong programs. Finance is the #2 undergrad major for CMU, makes up 9% of undergrad majors at UCB, UChicago even has Accounting majors. Don’t get me wrong, you have to do more to prove yourself to others, but I strongly disagree with anyone who says you have no chance.

As an econ major + math minor now at CMU MSCF with an internship I'm happy with, I agree with this and can testify that there's more than one way to become a quant-- not just CS+Math. Do what you enjoy and can see yourself doing for the next 40+ years.

 

[MichaelLewis]

I’m in a similar boat as you coming from a non-target major and non-target university and I disagree with what most are saying.

I do agree if you’re dead set on quant and you have the opportunity to, switch to a more quant oriented major like math or stats, even at another school. Don’t worry if it sets you back a year or two. I wish I had. If you feel like you’re unable to switch for whatever reason, thats fine, you CAN still make it work, it’s just going to be more work.

Personally I only have Calc 2, Linear algebra, Calc Probability, and a lot of Stats/econometrics as my official courses on my transcript. I say you need these as the bare minimum, excluding the excess of econometrics. I have no advance calc (multivariable, ODE/PDE) and no coding classes officially. According to some above, I would have no chance at an MFE, but I feel like I’m holding on pretty good in this admissions cycle for T10 MFE programs despite how competitive it is.

That being said I’ve self-studied the material or have work experience with it but MFE admissions don’t really care about self-study. I took a lot of extra courses outside of school (incl. QN’s C++ which I do recommend), had strong non-quant but relevant internships, and participated in quant research at my university. The only school I’ve applied to that requested I take an official PDE class is UCB (among other classes in their list I’ve already self-studied or have extensive experience with).

Just look at class profiles of strong programs. Finance is the #2 undergrad major for CMU, makes up 9% of undergrad majors at UCB, UChicago even has Accounting majors. Don’t get me wrong, you have to do more to prove yourself to others, but I strongly disagree with anyone who says you have no chance.

So what you’re really saying is that you completely agree with the previous comments.

 

[redoctober]

So what you’re really saying is that you completely agree with the previous comments.

No

If you continue down your current path, you will not meet the requirements to actually get a job in quantitative finance or an MFE.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment.

OP's plan to take 4 of those listed math courses with a finance major is adequate for both a quantitative job and an MFE, but they cannot rely solely on their university to prepare them and will need to put in extra work in extracurriculars/internship preparation to make it. I say this both anecdotally and from data provided by MFE class profiles.

Anecdotally, I only learned about MFEs myself after failing a final quant interview at a top prop firm. When I asked for advice, the interviewer shared that they were a CMU MSCF grad and that these programs may help me prepare further in the future since I didn't want to do a traditional thesis based program. Both they and other quant firms had no issue with my weaker academic math background (similar to OP's plan), as long as I could show my competencies.

My path was very close to OP's planned path academically and I just turned down a back/middle office quant job offer in Canada to go to do my MFE in the US; the requirements to actually get a quant job or an MFE are definitely met from his current path.

Sure OP might get an instant rejects from firms like JS or Citadel or MFE programs like Princeton and Baruch in the screening process if they continue down this route, but like others said there are many ways into the quant world both professionally and academically than the traditional pure math route if you are truly a capable individual.

 

[MichaelLewis]

No

I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment.

OP's plan to take 4 of those listed math courses with a finance major is adequate for both a quantitative job and an MFE, but they cannot rely solely on their university to prepare them and will need to put in extra work in extracurriculars/internship preparation to make it. I say this both anecdotally and from data provided by MFE class profiles.

Anecdotally, I only learned about MFEs myself after failing a final quant interview at a top prop firm. When I asked for advice, the interviewer shared that they were a CMU MSCF grad and that these programs may help me prepare further in the future since I didn't want to do a traditional thesis based program. Both they and other quant firms had no issue with my weaker academic math background (similar to OP's plan), as long as I could show my competencies.

My path was very close to OP's planned path academically and I just turned down a back/middle office quant job offer in Canada to go to do my MFE in the US; the requirements to actually get a quant job or an MFE are definitely met from his current path.

Sure OP might get an instant rejects from firms like JS or Citadel or MFE programs like Princeton and Baruch in the screening process if they continue down this route, but like others said there are many ways into the quant world both professionally and academically than the traditional pure math route if you are truly a capable individual.

Like I said, you completely agree.

If you read the posts, they state that the extra work is necessary outside of his planned university courses.

 

[redoctober]

Like I said, you completely agree.

If you read the posts, they state that the extra work is necessary outside of his planned university courses.

I did not respond to the thread to argue semantics with others, I wanted to share my personal experience with OP to give them a different opinion and help them out.

The question was if they meet the minimum for a good MFE and in almost all cases they will. If they have limitations that prevent them from switching schools/majors, I want to encourage them to pursue their goals and keep the quant door open because they can do it if they put in extra work right now. Even if they don't go to quant, the extra work will pay off elsewhere.

Maybe they're not dead set on quant and want to know what their options might be in the future, they're only in their sophomore year after all and probably still a teenager . I sure as hell had no clue what I wanted to do back then and seems like they are already ahead of me at that age by asking these questions and planning ahead.

I'm no expert but speaking from my own MFE admission experience:
- They will not be rejected from top programs because they lack a ODE/PDE course (for most MFE programs, and they will often give you a chance to rectify as a condition if required)
- They will not be required to take 2 years worth of MOOCs/online courses after graduation to gain pre-requisites
- They do not need to transfer schools or change majors to land a quant job/good MFE admission

These are all statements from those posts I have read and I know from personal experience are untrue. Like I originally said, I agree extra work is necessary beyond just taking 4 math classes, but these above statements are misleading.

Thank you for your recommendations!

I empathize with your situation. Feel free to message me if you have other questions about what my own journey has looked like!

 

[ajjjw]

Just wanted to drop an anecdotal data point here: i went to a very non target school and switched to math from econ a little late in the game once i realized what was needed to do research in industry/academia and had to do an extra semester. was able to secure a decent econ research placement out of undergrad which would absolutely not have been open to me with a simple econ major. I only got up to real analysis in my last semester. I recommend any non target student study math.

What i will say is that if you want to pursue this route you should love math and want to study just based on internal motivation and interest outside of any sort of calculated professional decision. Some may disagree but it’s my opinion.

Edit: regarding switching schools, i’d be very careful making decisions like this solely for career purposes. Of course i understand the logic, but there is more to life than optimizing for post grad placement. If you have a good network of friends and professor relationships at your current institution, i highly suggest to tough it out there.