Seeking candid advice on what to focus on for a chance at top 10 MFE-equivalent programs

[pwlifting]

Hi everyone! I just took the GRE today, and I didn't receive the score that I really wanted to get. I don't want to sit here and mope around, so I'm looking for some advice on what to do next instead. I am aiming to attend a top 10 MFE-equivalent program.

Background:
- Chinese-American, US citizen
- rising senior at a non-target (ranked around 250ish) US university graduating after 2025 spring
- majoring in Math and minoring in CS (C++ emphasis in the CS minor)
- 3.89 GPA
- GRE: 167 Q, 160 V
- no internships (definitely regret not working harder to pursue one)
- short stint as a machine-learning research assistant

Possible future plans:
1. retake the GRE to get a better score on the quant section
2. learning more Python and doing some quantitative finance-related projects
3. focus on securing an internship for the summer of 2025
4. going through Option Volatility and Pricing by Natenberg (a mentor in the field advised me to read this)


To use my time most effectively, where should I delegate most of my efforts towards? No need to sugarcoat, if it doesn't seem likely for me. Thank you all for your time!

 

[MikeLawrence]

You have not provided information needed to give you advice.

What do you study?

List all the math and stat courses you've taken, and the key topics in each.

What languages can you program in, and at what level of proficiency?

 

[weab]

You have not provided information needed to give you advice.

What do you study?

List all the math and stat courses you've taken, and the key topics in each.

What languages can you program in, and at what level of proficiency?

This. Also what is your goal of joining an MFE? If you want a job in quant then what do you want to do, buyside/ sellside, research, dev, trading? These questions will help optimize your outcome for MS admissions and future outlook.

 

[pwlifting]

You have not provided information needed to give you advice.

What do you study?

List all the math and stat courses you've taken, and the key topics in each.

What languages can you program in, and at what level of proficiency?

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your time.

The math courses I have taken so far are:
- Calculus 1, Calculus 2, Calculus 3; derivatives, integrals, multi-variable calculus
- Linear Algebra; determinants, linear transformations, eigenvalues and eigenvectors
- Discrete Math; set operations, equivalence relations
- Differential Equations 1 and 2; 1st-order, 2nd-order, systems of diff eq
- Abstract Algebra; sets, functions, rings, fields
- Number Theory 1, Number Theory 2; divisibility, congruences, quadratic forms/reciprocity
- Introduction to Proofs; set theory, limits, continuity, sequences
- Combinatorics; permutations, combinations, graph theory

Future math courses:
- Numerical Methods
- Statistical Methods; normal distribution, statistical sampling, estimation, etc.
- Real Analysis

Languages:
- C++; courses involving object-oriented programming, dynamic memory allocation, data structures
- Python; very minimal tbh

When I first started college, I knew I wanted to do math in the future but thought pure math is too theoretical. This led me to pursue more software engineering. However, I realize that there is not too much math involved in swe. I recently met a couple of mentors in the quant field through church, school, and family. Hearing about the mathematical nature of their work and the use of technology is why I am interested in this field. This relatively new development is also why I didn't really take as many classes that may pertain more to being a quant.

Again, thank you for help! Please lmk

 

[pwlifting]

This. Also what is your goal of joining an MFE? If you want a job in quant then what do you want to do, buyside/ sellside, research, dev, trading? These questions will help optimize your outcome for MS admissions and future outlook.

Hi weab,

Thank you for your time!

I try to do my due diligence and understand the difference but I am still not too sure to be honest. I know I want to do something more "quantitative" in nature, which I assume is more research or model validation. A mentor I know who was a quantitative trader said they didn't do too much math. Maybe they were in a more managerial role? Also, I don't think being a developer aligns with my goals.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

[weab]

Hi weab,

Thank you for your time!

I try to do my due diligence and understand the difference but I am still not too sure to be honest. I know I want to do something more "quantitative" in nature, which I assume is more research or model validation. A mentor I know who was a quantitative trader said they didn't do too much math. Maybe they were in a more managerial role? Also, I don't think being a developer aligns with my goals.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Based on your information,

- take a class in undergraduate probability theory (prerequisite)
- if you don't want to go into quant dev or HFT then you should learn python-
- I would not retake the GRE. A lot of schools don't even require it and it is not that important
- doing some quantitative finance projects is a good idea, will help you understand if you are actually interested in the field and demonstrate interest
- try to get an internship

Overall you will have a better foundation in math than other applicants which is good. I would say you have a good chance at getting into a top 10 MFE.

 

[achirikhin]

Get a quant job if you can, even if it does not pay that much initially. If you do know C++ to a degree - this is all you need. Probability, numerics etc that are used in real life are easy and can be picked up as you go, but C++ is a rare and important skill. Doing such job is the best project you can image.

In preparation for a QD interview, study some Algorithmics, not Python. This is a 100:1 skill.

Introduction to Algorithms

A comprehensive update of the leading algorithms text, with new material on matchings in bipartite graphs, online algorithms, machine learning, and other top...

mitpress.mit.edu

Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Once you have had your first job, you will front run any grads etc for your second and higher paying job.


Good luck!

 

[pwlifting]

Based on your information,

- take a class in undergraduate probability theory (prerequisite)
- if you don't want to go into quant dev or HFT then you should learn python-
- I would not retake the GRE. A lot of schools don't even require it and it is not that important
- doing some quantitative finance projects is a good idea, will help you understand if you are actually interested in the field and demonstrate interest
- try to get an internship

Overall you will have a better foundation in math than other applicants which is good. I would say you have a good chance at getting into a top 10 MFE.

Hi weab,

Thanks for the advice. I'm sort of in a predicament as probability theory (or even the pre-req for this class) hasn't been offered to students for 6 years now at my school. Would an online certificate of a course on probability theory suffice? What are some essential topics in probability theory?

 

[pwlifting]

Get a quant job if you can, even if it does not pay that much initially. If you do know C++ to a degree - this is all you need. Probability, numerics etc that are used in real life are easy and can be picked up as you go, but C++ is a rare and important skill. Doing such job is the best project you can image.

In preparation for a QD interview, study some Algorithmics, not Python. This is a 100:1 skill.

Introduction to Algorithms

A comprehensive update of the leading algorithms text, with new material on matchings in bipartite graphs, online algorithms, machine learning, and other top...

mitpress.mit.edu

Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Once you have had your first job, you will front run any grads etc for your second and higher paying job.

Good luck!

Hi achirikhin,

Thank you for your time!

I would love to get a quant internship or job. However, most of the "feasible" ones that are somewhat oriented toward undergraduate students seem to involve risk at local banks. Any ideas on where else to look? I will definitely try to ask around people I know.

In regards to algorithmics, I don't think I am looking to be a developer. Do you still think this is helpful for research or model validation? My mentors tell me they primarily use Python. However, I probably don't have the full picture. Please let me know.

Again, thank you for your help!

 

[achirikhin]

Model val don't do programming at all these days. It is mostly about reading prod model docs, agreeing on testing plans and writing model val docs.

I would strongly advise not to go to model val as the first job. It is very difficult to get out of it, and the pay is worst.

In Risk on the sell side, it depends what risk. If you mean Risk QA, then possibly, but it is "second worst" to Model val.

The only places you can reasonably expect Python to be used are buy-side-ish PM quants and some areas in electronic trading and alike.

If you can't get into a bank in FO, I would suggest consulting. All major consulting companies now have financial risk advisory businesses. You will end up working for clients probably in model val or risk, but at least you will not be bound to a particular bank. You may also do Python in this roles with higher probability.

I discuss this all in the much greater detail in Chapter 2 of my course.

 

[weab]

Hi weab,

Thanks for the advice. I'm sort of in a predicament as probability theory (or even the pre-req for this class) hasn't been offered to students for 6 years now at my school. Would an online certificate of a course on probability theory suffice? What are some essential topics in probability theory?

I don't know any online certificates or good courses but some standard topics are: conditional probability, expectation , variance, bayes rule, random variables, some common discrete and continuous distributions, conditional / joint distributions, moments, law of large numbers, central limit theorem

 

[achirikhin]

I don't know any online certificates or good courses but some standard topics are: conditional probability, expectation , variance, bayes rule, random variables, some common discrete and continuous distributions, conditional / joint distributions, moments, law of large numbers, central limit theorem

Google: Shreve lectures pdf

 

[xeusclay]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your time.

The math courses I have taken so far are:
- Calculus 1, Calculus 2, Calculus 3; derivatives, integrals, multi-variable calculus
- Linear Algebra; determinants, linear transformations, eigenvalues and eigenvectors
- Discrete Math; set operations, equivalence relations
- Differential Equations 1 and 2; 1st-order, 2nd-order, systems of diff eq
- Abstract Algebra; sets, functions, rings, fields
- Number Theory 1, Number Theory 2; divisibility, congruences, quadratic forms/reciprocity
- Introduction to Proofs; set theory, limits, continuity, sequences
- Combinatorics; permutations, combinations, graph theory

Future math courses:
- Numerical Methods
- Statistical Methods; normal distribution, statistical sampling, estimation, etc.
- Real Analysis

Languages:
- C++; courses involving object-oriented programming, dynamic memory allocation, data structures
- Python; very minimal tbh

When I first started college, I knew I wanted to do math in the future but thought pure math is too theoretical. This led me to pursue more software engineering. However, I realize that there is not too much math involved in swe. I recently met a couple of mentors in the quant field through church, school, and family. Hearing about the mathematical nature of their work and the use of technology is why I am interested in this field. This relatively new development is also why I didn't really take as many classes that may pertain more to being a quant.

Again, thank you for help! Please lmk

I don't have much knowledge about the industry but, given your comprehensive course list and impressive GPA, I believe you would be very competitive among MFin applicants! Good luck!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You aim for Fall 2025 admission cycle at top MFE programs which starts in a few months. Here is the plan as I would do starting this summer.

• Take Python and C++ in any order. We have the most appropriate courses for those subjects here.
• Work on your applications, reference letters, essays.
• Get started on interview prep. We have a list of the books here.

Getting into a program is the easy part. You need to get ready for internship interview as soon as you start the program.

 

[pwlifting]

Model val don't do programming at all these days. It is mostly about reading prod model docs, agreeing on testing plans and writing model val docs.

I would strongly advise not to go to model val as the first job. It is very difficult to get out of it, and the pay is worst.

In Risk on the sell side, it depends what risk. If you mean Risk QA, then possibly, but it is "second worst" to Model val.

The only places you can reasonably expect Python to be used are buy-side-ish PM quants and some areas in electronic trading and alike.

If you can't get into a bank in FO, I would suggest consulting. All major consulting companies now have financial risk advisory businesses. You will end up working for clients probably in model val or risk, but at least you will not be bound to a particular bank. You may also do Python in this roles with higher probability.

I discuss this all in the much greater detail in Chapter 2 of my course.

Thanks achirikhin! I'll definitely keep this in mind and do more research

 

[pwlifting]

I don't know any online certificates or good courses but some standard topics are: conditional probability, expectation , variance, bayes rule, random variables, some common discrete and continuous distributions, conditional / joint distributions, moments, law of large numbers, central limit theorem

Google: Shreve lectures pdf

Would graduate courses take online courses like this as a pre-req?

https://www.edx.org/learn/probability/harvard-university-introduction-to-probability

 

[pwlifting]

You aim for Fall 2025 admission cycle at top MFE programs which starts in a few months. Here is the plan as I would do starting this summer.

• Take Python and C++ in any order. We have the most appropriate courses for those subjects here.
• Work on your applications, reference letters, essays.
• Get started on interview prep. We have a list of the books here.

Getting into a program is the easy part. You need to get ready for internship interview as soon as you start the program.

Hi Andy!

Thanks for stopping by, I'll take a look at one of those courses when I have the budget. In regards to the interview prep, which books from the list were you referring to? Does any of the books under BOOKS FOR QUANT INTERVIEWS suffice?

 

[achirikhin]

Would graduate courses take online courses like this as a pre-req?

https://www.edx.org/learn/probability/harvard-university-introduction-to-probability

Taking a course is never a pre-req. Nobody cares if you took courses. Having a university degree is merely a proxy for you to be able to adhere to a schedule, not for actual knowledge. It is knowledge that matters, which you can get from a uni, from an online course, of from a self study. Knowledge will be gauged in various ways: programming skills via Codility interview or at least a test (and this stage is typically very important), most places now ask grads to also do a kind of a math test, a problem set, basically, online or in person. Nobody will ever go through a list of your courses and tick boxes.

Here is a slide from my course on this

Quantitative Analyst, Developer, Strat: The Profession

You will learn what job of quantitative analysts, quantitative developers and strats in buy and sell side (banks, investment management companies and hedge funds), in consulting and in fintech is really all about. What people in the profession do on daily basis, what are their deliverables, and...

www.qaprofession.com

 

[weab]

Taking a course is never a pre-req. Nobody cares if you took courses. Having a university degree is merely a proxy for you to be able to adhere to a schedule, not for actual knowledge. It is knowledge that matters, which you can get from a uni, from an online course, of from a self study. Knowledge will be gauged in various ways: programming skills via Codility interview or at least a test (and this stage is typically very important), most places now ask grads to also do a kind of a math test, a problem set, basically, online or in person. Nobody will ever go through a list of your courses and tick boxes.

Here is a slide from my course on this

Quantitative Analyst, Developer, Strat: The Profession

You will learn what job of quantitative analysts, quantitative developers and strats in buy and sell side (banks, investment management companies and hedge funds), in consulting and in fintech is really all about. What people in the profession do on daily basis, what are their deliverables, and...

www.qaprofession.com

The original poster is asking about MS programs in quantitative finance. The real question is how can you demonstrate to admissions that you have knowledge of probability, which is a pre-req to almost all of these programs as they assume you have knowledge of undergraduate probability.

 

[achirikhin]

The original poster is asking about MS programs in quantitative finance. The real question is how can you demonstrate to admissions that you have knowledge of probability, which is a pre-req to almost all of these programs as they assume you have knowledge of undergraduate probability.

He also asked about an internship, and he was advised to scrap both an internship or Masters, get an entry level job, if he knows basic math and programming, so as to get real life QA knowledge and make some money sooner.