Should I even bother applying to these Post-Bac programs?

[Powell]

I'm hoping to complete a post-bac program to make myself look more attractive an applicant to grad schools. As far as I can tell, there aren't that many post-bac programs for finance out there, with offerings only at the extremes of rankings (University of North Florida vs. Columbia). I am planning to apply to three programs (Columbia, Boston University, and UPenn), and I have serious reason to doubt that I have any business applying at all, as you'll see.

Here is some info about me:
UGPA: 3.1
SAT: 1,220/1,600
– Reading: 630/800
– Math: 590/800
ACT: 30
– English: 35
– Math: 29
– Reading: 32
– Science: 25
Relevant Courses: Calc I
Work Experience: 2 years, Market Research
Relevant Experience: None

My transcript is littered with 5 C's, 2 D's, 1 F, and 6 W's (I know). It does not get better with time—quite the opposite. I'm very ashamed of my transcript. I changed plans every semester.

Also, I attended an orthodox religious private university, with religion having been the defining feature of my life, and I began going through a crisis of faith and accompanying depression that would ultimately end with my leaving the church shortly after graduation. I addressed this in the essays in my Penn application (already submitted), but it seems like an almost inappropriate thing to mention in a personal statement. Also, I'm not sure how much of an excuse an ad com will consider that, notwithstanding its true difficulty.

Even with all of my dropped courses (3 were the same Chemistry course) I was still able to graduate a semester early, having started my first semester with 30hrs. of college credit.

This past semester I took an intermediate microeconomics and a principles of finance course and got B's in the courses.

I haven't taken the GRE, but have scored in the low 160's on both sections on practice tests.

Be brutally honest. Am I delusional for thinking there's a possibility I'd get into one of those three programs?
I'm unemployed, and right now my best alternative is to split rent with my brother in San Antonio and attend classes at UTSA (University of San Antonio). That wouldn't be terrible, but obviously I'd much rather spend that time at one of these other programs.

 

[bigbadwolf]

I suspect you're aiming for finance, rather than quant finance. If the former, there's hope. If the latter, prospects are bleak.

 

[Powell]

I suspect you're aiming for finance, rather than quant finance. If the former, there's hope. If the latter, prospects are bleak.

I am aiming for quant finance. Is there another post-bac certification program for finance?

 

[bigbadwolf]

I am aiming for quant finance. Is there another post-bac certification program for finance?

Then in that case intermediate microeconomics and a principles of finance course are a waste of time. You need math, math, and more math. Along with some intensive coding. Even given aptitude you'll need a couple of years, maybe more.

 

[Powell]

Thanks very much for that advice! I clearly need all of that I can get...

 

[CasanovaJ]

Why did you mention "applying to UPenn" if your interest is supposedly quant finance? I went there for undergrad-- they don't have anything remotely resembling a quant finance program.

Edit: If it's for "post-bacc," I don't know that there's really such thing as "rejection from a post-bacc program" (especially if you're proposing to do it online)... they're not giving you a degree, and they'll be happy to take your money. I agree with everyone else, though-- if the plan is to do quant finance at some point, then you should be doing math right now, not finance, and starting from (more or less) the beginning will take you at least two years... you should probably consider that before taking the plunge at paying an arm and a leg to Penn.

 

[Powell]

Penn does have a very flexible post-baccalaureate program. I realize that these programs are pretty much cash cows for the universities that have them, as scholarships are virtually nonexistent. I certainly am starting from the beginning. Perhaps a more affordable place like San Antonio is my best option for now. Though, the program at Columbia is designed for a beginner, with Calc II and III, Dif EQ, and Intro to Programming in several languages as part of the curriculum. I have no doubts about it being a great place for me to start—only about whether even a post-bac program would accept me with my lackluster transcript and resume, and no references. Cash cow though it may be, the program is still a Columbia program.

 

[IntoDarkness]

ur local community college will serve u better

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Though, the program at Columbia is designed for a beginner, with Calc II and III, Dif EQ, and Intro to Programming in several languages as part of the curriculum.


This does not sound right. These courses look pretty basic.
These days MSc students are doing theses in C++, Boost PDE, MC, etc. etc. at an extremely high level (believe me, I supervised 10 of them last year). Competition fierce and I don't give you much chance. Sorry.

 

[Powell]

Take a look. It is a post-bac program, intended for MS preparation—often for people wanting to change careers. Admissions standards are generally believed to be lower, but the information isn't available.

Darkness, that may be true if disregarding the attraction of having a decent transcript and possibly letters of recommendation from Columbia.

 

[bigbadwolf]

This does not sound right. These courses look pretty basic.

They are. The program seems designed to fool people into thinking they'll have a real chance at getting into a ranking quant program afterwards. In reality, not a snowball's chance in hell (and the program will probably cost an arm and a leg).

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Take a look. It is a post-bac program, intended for MS preparation—often for people wanting to change careers. Admissions standards are generally believed to be lower, but the information isn't available.

Darkness, that may be true if disregarding the attraction of having a decent transcript and possibly letters of recommendation from Columbia.

It's too theoretical; you come out with "two left hands". (pardon my Dutch) Where's the _detailed_ outline of each course?

Hold on a sec: you mean it costs $5,520.00 flat rate for each of Calc II, III, IV?

The name "School of Continuing Education" kind of worries me.

 

[CasanovaJ]

I think what generally concerns me is that nothing you've told us about yourself has communicated any particular interest in math or engineering, and you didn't even seem to know that math (not finance) was the main requirement in MFE admissions. Unless you take a step back and all of a sudden find yourself with a burning desire to take PhD-level stochastic calculus courses, an MFE program (even if you were to manage to get in) wouldn't be a good fit for you, and you'd be better off in an MBA program. Look at the following, and ask yourself if you really have any genuine interest in learning it--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girsanov_theorem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoregressive_conditional_heteroskedasticity#GARCH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphism_(computer_science)

If the answer is no, it's irrelevant what you'd be willing to pay Columbia to teach you differential equations.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

To add to CasanovaJ's list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank–Nicolson_method

 

[evan guggenheim]

I agree with CasanovaJ, you really need to evaluate if you're prepared for the pain ahead to even be qualified for the MFE program, it seems based off what you told us about yourself, you have a long road ahead; that doesn't mean its not doable. Do you like math, high level math? Are you prepared to learn statistics? What about learning programming languages?

Also, it seems you have not thoroughly done your HW on what an MFE entails, as stated by someones else, its more about the mathematics and critical thinking than the finance knowledge, anyone can learn that on their free time. Focus on your quantitative skills and other skills that are needed. Studying the quant section of a GMAT or GRE prep book can help with the critical thinking skills (it will also raise your score), taking online or community college courses can help with the math skills. Read some quant text books to get a feel of what you would be doing in an MFE program and watch youtube videos regarding the same. Become obsessed! Once you feel comfortable doing this and determine that you enjoy it, then you you can move along to the next step.

I'm sure I'm missing some other important things that may need to be mentioned, but I'll leave it to some of the other guys on here who probably are more up to speed.

Good luck!

 

[Powell]

Thanks, all, for your honest input! I do realize how unimpressive my current transcript is. I do also realize that a strong quantitative background (and not knowledge of finance) is the main prerequisite for pursuing an MFE. While not currently especially numerate, I am a generally curious person, and any subject can hold my interest. My interest in the quant finance is as recent as this past semester, so I was already enrolled in the two courses I mentioned.

Evan, I am currently taking a GRE prep course, focusing more on the math portion of the test. That's some very good advice about how to use free time. Perhaps a few courses at a time at a closer, less expensive college, is the best option for me at this point in time to help me be sure that this path is a fit.

I will probably still spend the money to apply to the post-bac, only because I'm bull-headed and impatient. I'm aware of the type of work I would be doing, and I'm at or very near the level of preparedness at which this program is meeting new students. It's a natural (albeit expensive—I'm willing to pay for the Columbia brand) next step for someone in my position. I know you all are probably disappointed with that decision. I'll remember you guys when I'm regretting paying the application fee!

Thanks again, everyone, for the recommendations!

 

[evan guggenheim]

Thanks, all, for your honest input! I do realize how unimpressive my current transcript is. I do also realize that a strong quantitative background (and not knowledge of finance) is the main prerequisite for pursuing an MFE. While not currently especially numerate, I am a generally curious person, and any subject can hold my interest. My interest in the quant finance is as recent as this past semester, so I was already enrolled in the two courses I mentioned.

Evan, I am currently taking a GRE prep course, focusing more on the math portion of the test. That's some very good advice about how to use free time. Perhaps a few courses at a time at a closer, less expensive college, is the best option for me at this point in time to help me be sure that this path is a fit.

I will probably still spend the money to apply to the post-bac, only because I'm bull-headed and impatient. I'm aware of the type of work I would be doing, and I'm at or very near the level of preparedness at which this program is meeting new students. It's a natural (albeit expensive—I'm willing to pay for the Columbia brand) next step for someone in my position. I know you all are probably disappointed with that decision. I'll remember you guys when I'm regretting paying the application fee!

Thanks again, everyone, for the recommendations!

Powell,

I don't think you're making a bad decision doing the columbia program, I'm just concerned you're infatuated with the idea of it rather than really wanting to do it. Being a curious person can be very good if your very disciplined and very bad if you're all over the place, i.e. change your interest whimsically and being passionate about everything.

I actually took into consideration the columbia post-bac, and may sign up as well as I see how it can benefit me as well. Regarding the matter, what program are you applying to and when is the app due? I called them today but they were already closed and wasn't able to find it on their site for some reason.

 

[TehRaio]

Don't do a post-bac just for the sake of getting "ready" for a MFE.
if you are willing to spend at least a year, then do a proper graduate degree (Msc) in a field of interest, that will give you other options beside the MFE if you ever decide that is really what you want. Based on what I read every time I visit a forum or a school's program website, legit MFE programs are highly competitive and unforgiving. Hell, it's not like you have a guaranteed job after you graduate from a MFE, so spending that money just to "apply" should be last resort.

 

[evan guggenheim]

Don't do a post-bac just for the sake of getting "ready" for a MFE.
if you are willing to spend at least a year, then do a proper graduate degree (Msc) in a field of interest, that will give you other options beside the MFE if you ever decide that is really what you want. Based on what I read every time I visit a forum or a school's program website, legit MFE programs are highly competitive and unforgiving. Hell, it's not like you have a guaranteed job after you graduate from a MFE, so spending that money just to "apply" should be last resort.

@TehRaio , I totally agree. Doing a masters is far more practical, and at least you can fall back on it as a backup.

 

[Powell]

Evan, if you're still interested the application for Spring 2015 is due Jan. 1st, so you'll have to hurry. The only part of the application that will take a long time, however, is the 500-750 personal statement. You can start an application here: http://ce.columbia.edu/certificates/quantitative-studies-for-finance-certificate/apply. The deadline for fall is July 15th.