Some advice, please

[basilps]

I have had my heart set on pursuing a quant career for about a year, but I've only just joined this forum. Some context for my current position in life: I graduated in 2022 at age 18 from a top-25 university in America in two years with a mathematical finance degree (couldn't afford to stay longer). My two on-campus years did not result in much career advancement in the form of networking or internships, as I only learned I needed to graduate in my second year; I had assumed I would be on campus for at least three years and perhaps pursue a masters' degree. This year I've been living with my parents working as a substitute teacher, soccer referee, and quiz bowl coach.

Coming out of this sabbatical, I don't know what opportunities to target. I don't have the savings for an MFE or MS in Finance, and with a BS I don't exactly have the profile of a quant intern. That leaves me with entry-level quant positions, but I only have one semester of C++ and a few mathematical finance and statistics courses to my name. I firmly believe I am suited for this field, but I have no idea how to go from point A (my childhood home) to point B (a quant job). Do I hunker down and self-study all the additional finance and programming? Do I apply for internships? Do I apply for jobs and hope for the best? Will I need to take the GRE? What are my best courses of action? Many thanks in advance to all who respond.

 

[GWeitz]

I honestly wish I was in your position - that young with a BS and a whole life ahead! I suggest you look into a PhD program, that’s what I would have done if hadn’t first served in the military and only then graduate from college.

It depends what quant finance career you want, but if you want more open doors when you get to point B, I highly suggest you get that PhD. I'm pretty sure that almost all STEM PhD programs in the US are basically free!

 

[basilps]

I honestly wish I was in your position - that young with a BS and a whole life ahead! I suggest you look into a PhD program, that’s what I would have done if hadn’t first served in the military and only then graduate from college.

It depends what quant finance career you want, but if you want more open doors when you get to point B, I highly suggest you get that PhD. I'm pretty sure that almost all STEM PhD programs in the US are basically free!

This is excellent advice... wish I had given a PhD serious consideration sooner. I'm flattered and relieved to hear that you find my position desirable, and far from hopeless. Would you advise going for a summer internship and applying later in the year, or should I go in for PhD applications this season? Thanks again for your input.

 

[GWeitz]

I would wait till Spring 2023 and Fall 2024. Make a google sheet with a list of 5-10 programs you would be interested in. Make columns for university, field of study, professor you would want as an advisor, possible research areas you could be interested in, application term, application deadline, tuition (most likely $0), etc. this will give you a better idea what programs offer what and hopefully you will see a pattern in the area of research that interests you.

You should choose research areas that interest YOU and not only because your end goal is quant finance. Some of the top quant firms actually prefer STEM PhDs with 0 experience in finance. (There are a lot of particle physicists in the industry)

A publication will put your application in another league. So till then, I would suggest reaching out to the professors of these programs and tell them that you’d be interested researching with them as a professional researcher until you get admitted to any program. Doesn’t have to be theirs, but you have an opportunity to show them what you’re worth and if you prove an asset to them, they themselves would recommend you to admissions. If you can’t get a research position with one of them, I would reach out to other universities who do similar research (perhaps with younger professors who graduated from your target list).

 

[basilps]

I would wait till Spring 2023 and Fall 2024. Make a google sheet with a list of 5-10 programs you would be interested in. Make columns for university, field of study, professor you would want as an advisor, possible research areas you could be interested in, application term, application deadline, tuition (most likely $0), etc. this will give you a better idea what programs offer what and hopefully you will see a pattern in the area of research that interests you.

You should choose research areas that interest YOU and not only because your end goal is quant finance. Some of the top quant firms actually prefer STEM PhDs with 0% experience in finance. (There are a lot of particle physicists in the industry)

A publication will put your application in another league. So till then, I would suggest reaching out to the professors of these programs and tell them that you’d be interested researching with them as a professional researcher until you get admitted to any program. Doesn’t have to be theirs, but you have an opportunity to show them what you’re worth and if you prove an asset to them, they themselves would recommend you to admissions. If you can’t get a research position with one of them, I would reach out to other universities who do similar research (perhaps with younger professors who graduated from your target list).

You, my friend, are amazing. Thank you for your thorough reply! I'd love to pursue a PhD in physics or statistics should the opportunity present itself. I'll get that google sheet fired up straight away!

 

[GWeitz]

100% man. Ive never seen a physics PhD student that didn’t have a bachelors in physics so wouldn’t recommend that route for you. But Stats, applied math, pure math, cs, econ could all be amazing options!

 

[basilps]

100% man. Ive never seen a physics PhD student that didn’t have a bachelors in physics so wouldn’t recommend that route for you. But Stats, applied math, pure math, cs, econ could all be amazing options!

Would they really let me do a CS PhD? I only took one C++ class in college... I'd love to learn more, but I don't know how to self-study it, let alone get into a graduate program for it! I've been looking mostly at math and statistics so far... Also apparently Stephen Wolfram dropped out of his undergrad studies and got a PhD in physics in two years... not comparing myself to him, just saying it's theoretically possible.

 

[QuantCoach]

When you mention pursuing a quant career, do you mean for quant research or quant trading? I talked to some PhDs who advised avoiding a PhD if you're just trying to get a job out of it, and rather to do a PhD only if you're genuinely interested in the research topic. But yeah if you're adamant about going into QR, a relevent PhD might be your best shot given your circumstances (but do be aware that finding a well-established professor to be your advisor also isn't that easy in the first place). However, it's different if you want to go into quant trading - even some of the best firms don't require you to have any trading/programming background beforehand (seen cases where biology students became QTs for example). They mainly care about your potential to learn and given that you graduated when you were 18 at a top 25 school, you might have some shot.

 

[basilps]

When you mention pursuing a quant career, do you mean for quant research or quant trading? I talked to some PhDs who advised avoiding a PhD if you're just trying to get a job out of it, and rather to do a PhD only if you're genuinely interested in the research topic. But yeah if you're adamant about going into QR, a relevent PhD might be your best shot given your circumstances (but do be aware that finding a well-established professor to be your advisor also isn't that easy in the first place). However, it's different if you want to go into quant trading - even some of the best firms don't require you to have any trading/programming background beforehand (seen cases where biology students became QTs for example). They mainly care about your potential to learn and given that you graduated when you were 18 at a top 25 school, you might have some shot.

When you put it this way, I can see how going straight for a PhD could be the long way round... I'm more interested in QT than QR, but I wouldn't have a problem with either... It can't hurt to go after QT jobs this cycle just because, right? I have theoretically as much free time as I could ever ask for, so I definitely can do the PhD feelers and the interview rounds at the same time (they're not going to ask me about, say, SQL commands or butterfly spreads or what the yield curves are doing, right?). What would be your take on that? Thanks again for responding.

 

[QuantCoach]

When you put it this way, I can see how going straight for a PhD could be the long way round... I'm more interested in QT than QR, but I wouldn't have a problem with either... It can't hurt to go after QT jobs this cycle just because, right? I have theoretically as much free time as I could ever ask for, so I definitely can do the PhD feelers and the interview rounds at the same time (they're not going to ask me about, say, SQL commands or butterfly spreads or what the yield curves are doing, right?). What would be your take on that? Thanks again for responding.

Yes wouldn't hurt to try applying. New Grad QT roles usually don't ask code or specific financial knowledge. The emphasis is on your problem solving abilities - most of the questions don't require any specific background knowledge, just logical reasoning. The QR interview on the other hand is very different and needs much more background knowledge.

 

[basilps]

Yes wouldn't hurt to try applying. New Grad QT roles usually don't ask code or specific financial knowledge. The emphasis is on your problem solving abilities - most of the questions don't require any specific background knowledge, just logical reasoning. The QR interview on the other hand is very different and needs much more background knowledge.

Many thanks for your prompt response... Just saw your recent forum post, shoutout to you and all your achievements. I guess I already know where to find the new grad QT roles, so I'll see you at the top soon! Thanks again.