COMPARE Stanford FinMath or CMU MSCF with scholarship

[jwsss]

Hi All,

I have received offers from Stanford FinMath, CMU MSCF with 21000 scholarship in Pitts and Columbia MFE. I am still deciding which program to go and would like to hear your advice.

I am a Singapore applicant majoring in Quantitative Finance and want to pursue a career in structuring (at least for now). In the long run, I actually don't want to stay in IB and I believe, VC or HF would be a better choice. Moreover, it is quite possible that I may start to work in U.S. for several years and go back to China (due to family reasons).

Can you give suggestions based on above career aspirations?

Besides, I have a few doubts about these two programs and hope you could help me clarify them.

1. How is the career service for Stanford, since it is offered by stats department? Do anyone has their placement report? Are there many suitable job vacancies on west coasts?

2. It seems that CMU has very good reputation in Quant and S&T in U.S. I am wondering how about its reputation in Asia, especially in HK or SG? As far as I know, it seems not so good at least in SG local banks.

3. Do any insider has any idea about how is CMU internship and full time seeking this batch? I heard that it may be lower comparing to past few years.

Again, really appreciate if you could offer me some advice.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

jwsss
Congrats on your admits. Can you please add your timelines to our Tracker?
I have no idea on how these names are perceived in each individual Asian country. Unless you are going to wear the name in your shirt everyday there, that is not important. By the time you go back to Asia, the top part of your resume should be Work Experience, not Education.

CMU has a much better organized career service since it is run by their B-School. I have dealt with a lot of people from their Tepper school and they seem to know what they are doing.
I can't say the same thing about a lot of other programs, Stanford included. It is very hard to get much detailed, meaningful information out of them.

I would be very skeptical of programs that don't publish yearly, up-to-date data on their placement/admission. It may not be important to you and everyone but transparency is #1 criteria to me.

I can't tell how CMU Pittsburgh students are doing but I know quite a few students in CMU NYC and they all seem happy with the internship/job that they get.

 

[Kamesh]

Hi JWSS,

Can you let the forum know if Stanford gave any deadline on when to reply back by with your decision. Looks like there are a bunch of folks on the forum who are waiting for their admit/reject decision from Stanford (including me). When did you receive the admit decision ? and also can you let us know your profile.

Regards,
MK

 

[RainLee]

aha, u r from CD~

I remember that every year there are several MSCF students going to Asia.

 

[RainLee]

http://forum.chasedream.com/Master/thread-445837-1-1.html?SearchText=cmu mscf

Check it out

 

[Andy Nguyen]

That info is two years old (2010).

 

[chchch]

Hi All,

I have received offers from Stanford FinMath, CMU MSCF with 21000 scholarship in Pitts and Columbia MFE. I am still deciding which program to go and would like to hear your advice.

I am a Singapore applicant majoring in Quantitative Finance and want to pursue a career in structuring (at least for now). In the long run, I actually don't want to stay in IB and I believe, VC or HF would be a better choice. Moreover, it is quite possible that I may start to work in U.S. for several years and go back to China (due to family reasons).

Can you give suggestions based on above career aspirations?

Besides, I have a few doubts about these two programs and hope you could help me clarify them.

1. How is the career service for Stanford, since it is offered by stats department? Do anyone has their placement report? Are there many suitable job vacancies on west coasts?

2. It seems that CMU has very good reputation in Quant and S&T in U.S. I am wondering how about its reputation in Asia, especially in HK or SG? As far as I know, it seems not so good at least in SG local banks.

3. Do any insider has any idea about how is CMU internship and full time seeking this batch? I heard that it may be lower comparing to past few years.

Again, really appreciate if you could offer me some advice.

Dude, I am struggling on the same problem. Can we talk personally?
Thx a lot.

 

[Jingxuan]

so strong offers, congrats~
CMu ranks highest on quantnet, though the tuition is not low. with the scholarship, I'd have no second thought.

 

[jwsss]

Hi JWSS,

Can you let the forum know if Stanford gave any deadline on when to reply back by with your decision. Looks like there are a bunch of folks on the forum who are waiting for their admit/reject decision from Stanford (including me). When did you receive the admit decision ? and also can you let us know your profile.

Regards,
MK

Hi MK,
Yes, Stanford asks me to reply before March 9th.

 

[jwsss]

so strong offers, congrats~
CMu ranks highest on quantnet, though the tuition is not low. with the scholarship, I'd have no second thought.

I think Quantnet rank is just a reference and we should not judge everything depending on it. There are a lot more things need to be considered, right?

 

[jwsss]

http://forum.chasedream.com/Master/thread-445837-1-1.html?SearchText=cmu mscf

Check it out

Dude, I am struggling on the same problem. Can we talk personally?
Thx a lot.

As far as I know, the internship rate for CMU is not 100% under such back market condition. But, I would like to know more statistics about Stanford FinMath program

 

[bullion]

I think Quantnet rank is just a reference and we should not judge everything depending on it. There are a lot more things need to be considered, right?

Here's the thing

CMU Is the grand daddy of all quant program. (I think) they are the oldest, and they have a lot of experience in placement. Schools like CMU, UBC, NYU, and Baruch usually have very good placement in S&T bc that's their selling point. Their programs are usually more technical as well because developers are seriously in demand.

Schools like Stanford, Columbia, and Cornell, however, generally have a much more umbrella approach toward their quant programs. Their students get recruiter info from their own engineering school as a whole and they have a lot more exit options (maybe either good or bad.) but arguably they rely on their overall school brand a lot more and often don't have dedicated placement staff

CMU, NYU,and Baruch are much better if you are dead set on doing S&T in NYC. But if not, brand name carries a lot more weight oversea. Sure you might not have dedicated career services people to help you, but carrying the Stanford name and having access to their general recruitment events will already give you plenty of opportunities. You will also have a chance to check out and make connections in Silicon Valley. Looking at the long term, Stanford has a lot more alumni in VC than any of the schools you mentioned

Stanford

 

[chchch]

Here's the thing

CMU Is the grand daddy of all quant program. (I think) they are the oldest, and they have a lot of experience in placement. Schools like CMU, UBC, NYU, and Baruch usually have very good placement in S&T bc that's their selling point. Their programs are usually more technical as well because developers are seriously in demand.

Schools like Stanford, Columbia, and Cornell, however, generally have a much more umbrella approach toward their quant programs. Their students get recruiter info from their own engineering school as a whole and they have a lot more exit options (maybe either good or bad.) but arguably they rely on their overall school brand a lot more and often don't have dedicated placement staff

CMU, NYU,and Baruch are much better if you are dead set on doing S&T in NYC. But if not, brand name carries a lot more weight oversea. Sure you might not have dedicated career services people to help you, but carrying the Stanford name and having access to their general recruitment events will already give you plenty of opportunities. You will also have a chance to check out and make connections in Silicon Valley. Looking at the long term, Stanford has a lot more alumni in VC than any of the schools you mentioned

Stanford

Hey Bullion, u know anyone from Stanford? REALLY want to know some inside voice!

 

[Jingxuan]

I hear Stanford fe likes ppl with previous WE, as ucb and cornell do.
Stanford program is anyway the stellar to look up to.
many excellent ppl are from there. say,
Joseph Teran in the dept of math in UCLA(rated one of the cleverest persons there,like Terence Tao),
is a graduate of Stanford.

 

[jwsss]

Here's the thing

CMU Is the grand daddy of all quant program. (I think) they are the oldest, and they have a lot of experience in placement. Schools like CMU, UBC, NYU, and Baruch usually have very good placement in S&T bc that's their selling point. Their programs are usually more technical as well because developers are seriously in demand.

Schools like Stanford, Columbia, and Cornell, however, generally have a much more umbrella approach toward their quant programs. Their students get recruiter info from their own engineering school as a whole and they have a lot more exit options (maybe either good or bad.) but arguably they rely on their overall school brand a lot more and often don't have dedicated placement staff

CMU, NYU,and Baruch are much better if you are dead set on doing S&T in NYC. But if not, brand name carries a lot more weight oversea. Sure you might not have dedicated career services people to help you, but carrying the Stanford name and having access to their general recruitment events will already give you plenty of opportunities. You will also have a chance to check out and make connections in Silicon Valley. Looking at the long term, Stanford has a lot more alumni in VC than any of the schools you mentioned

Stanford

Thanks for your advice, Bullion.

Currently, my undergraduate major is offered by math Dept. So, I really don't want one more program, which don't have good career service. But, as the program director from Stanford said, we haven't heard of any difficulties from our students about seeking decent jobs.
Also, I believe the class size is one more thing we need to consider.

Besides, do you have any idea about the total cost for Stanford Program?

 

[jwsss]

I hear Stanford fe likes ppl with previous WE, as ucb and cornell do.
Stanford program is anyway the stellar to look up to.
many excellent ppl are from there. say,
Joseph Teran in the dept of math in UCLA(rated one of the cleverest persons there,like Terence Tao),
is a graduate of Stanford.

Myself is a fresh undergraduate w/o WE.

To be honest, I never doubt the ppl in Stanford, but only the career service, or we say placement record.

I am wondering the reason why they don't publish placement report. Does that mean it is bad or just because they are not biz school?

 

[bullion]

chchch sorry I don't. All I know is that their class is really REALLY small and VERY selective. Then again, most competitive programs are. The thing about recruitment is that there's always a feeder relationships with these schools. Baruch, (arguably NYU), CMU (too far), UCB (WAAAAY TOO FAR) and a handful of other schools have their dedicated placement staff because their overall university wasn't a target school when it came to finance. The excellence of their program is an exception to their overall school rankings, and over the years their students and administrators had successfully proven themselves to employers. Big schools don't (feel the) NEED to compete. They assume they are already AWESOME, and you can ride that sense of pride / arrogance both ways. If you're Asian though, your parents will always prefer telling people you went to Stanford over CMU no matter how good the CMU program is.

There are different reasons why no public placement report is published. It CAN BE that yes they have horrible placement record. It can also be the fact that ACADEMICIANS DON'T CARE and they don't even bother to collect info. Placement info is a really b school / marketing thing for some MFE programs. Most Harvard, MIT, Princeton, or any other majors don't have detailed breakdown on their post-graduation placement report. It is not to say the school isn't good. They simply don't care and there's a sense of limited responsibility thing going on. As mentioned, these MEGA school simply don't need to flaunt around petty numbers to attract students. There will always be students who wanna be an Harvard, MIT, or Princeton alumni for ANY major. People who didn't go to these schools will tell you it doesn't matter. People who did go to school will probably tell you it doesn't matter. But ask your mother, and she'll tell you which school you should go to (regardless of major)

jwsss I've heard a lot of arguments regarding career services, and I share your concern. But here might be something to wonder about

1) intraschool competition - besides non-related major competition (compsci.... general engineering/math/stat), whom will you be competing for a job after graduation? There's a lot of buzz about networking and stuff, but remember you're networking with the same group of people over students from Rutgers, Baruch, CMU, Columbia, NYU, and whichever random math kid who think they can do your job. It's a lot easier to lock someone down who's visiting Stanford vs who's doing a tour through ALL NY SCHOOLS.

2) recruitment channel - MFEs don't have their dedicated recruitment channel. What it means is that most people get their jobs through those traditional analyst/associate programs (need less W/E) or direct placement as specialists (which usually requires W/E). It also means that as long as banks do recruit on your campus, you'll be just as competitive as everyone else. Career services can only help you GET information and send you to the right path, but they can't CREATE new jobs for you. So NYC people can proudly PROCLAIM their home advantage for having a lot of "information," but you're an international student and you will be going through standard protocols. You'll be applying through company websites, and hopefully get an on-campus interview. Chances are you'll be applying to jobs in China as well. Do program directors in NYC really have an unfair advantage over their non-NYC peers for jobs oversea? (But it is a fact that some directors are more EAGER to provide you the RIGHT info, and sometimes it can be a lot of help)

3) Given your admissions to these three programs, your track record is pretty much as good as it can get. Most people here will tell you a lot about how they had no experience and miraculously got a job all thanks to their schools, but you're already very promising and likely very accomplished in comparison to your age group. Doing a master is more likely a choice than a necessity. So even if there's no dedicated career services, you can do most of the information gathering / filtering yourself when it comes to recruitment.

Not to mention CMU is opening up an online option.... seriously diluting the worth of their brand.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I hear Stanford fe likes ppl with previous WE, as ucb and cornell do.

Nope. Last year, all 13 external applicants admitted are fresh undergraduates with no work experience. 9 of them are from Asia.
http://finmath.stanford.edu/admissions/studentprofile.html

These things are very easy to do a quick check up on so please don't rely too much on what you hear. Just look up their website and ask the programs directly.

 

[Jingxuan]

Thanks for information Andy.
the admitted students are all undergraduate?

Nope. Last year, all 13 external applicants admitted are fresh undergraduates with no work experience. 9 of them are from Asia.
http://finmath.stanford.edu/admissions/studentprofile.html

These things are very easy to do a quick check up on so please don't rely too much on what you hear. Just look up their website and ask the programs directly.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

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