Starting in the back office is suicide?

[Gavin L]

Hey all,

Long time no post! Just for some context, I am in my final (honours) year in financial mathematics down under. Last summer I interned at an international BB as a front office quant (very rare) and absolutely loved it. Times were tough and none of the floor's interns were converted and so I went back to the drawing board.

At the moment I've applied to quant risk management positions with the thought that it could lead to some safer jobs given the down turn in markets. Ultimately I think I would be doing an MFE (in the UK or US) in the future, however I did want to travel and have some years of experience locally first.

Do you think that starting off in the back office of a retail bank would ultimately kill chances of front office quant roles in IBs or HFS? Or would an MFE 'wipe the slate' when I finish such a degree?

Cheers

 

[vertigo]

there is so much wrong in that last paragraph that it is hard to take you seriously let alone answer you.

why would starting off working in a bank kill your chances of working in a bank?
why include the adverb 'ultimately' .. ?
what is the slate? why would it be cleaned by completing a MFE?

i would also ask what you define as back office. do you define quant risk management as back office? as much as i hate the risk function in a bank, it is not back office.

 

[qdogg]

I don't know that I'd call quant risk management "back office"... BO is more ops and IT generally

 

[BeepImaJeep]

Risk is generally categorized as middle office or back office depending on the company, so OP isn't wrong.

My perception is that while working in back office "doesn't killing your chances" of transitioning to a front office role, it doesn't exactly help. Remember that it's not some absolute criteria you are trying to meet but that you are competing directly against other candidates, some of whom will come from backgrounds that offer more translatable skills than you can gain from back office work.

 

[vertigo]

If by generally you mean just yourself then sure. Any person with a brain will tell you that risk is not back office. It's not even middle office. It's an independent support function. Nothing more and nothing less

 

[mhy]

I don't know that I'd call quant risk management "back office"... BO is more ops and IT generally

Technology is not really back office either, because it spans the spectrum from pricing & automated trading systems all the way down to settlement systems. The only area that can really be called "back office" in the fullest sense of the phrase is the actual settlement and reconciliation functions i.e. operations.

That doesn't mean tech people are treated better than ops people.

 

[MRoss]

Ha, I feel like I log on once a year to reply to the same conversation.

I started 3 years ago as an IT business analyst in a big bank's risk department. I would say that is as far back office as you can go... Here is what I did.

(in months)
0-6: IT business analyst
6-20: Joined a new team which was to merge back office risk with middle office risk called the "Infrastructure Team"
20-30: Joined yet a new team, this one in risk "middle office". Started off just managing the flow of incoming tests of new front office trading positions, by the end I was analyzing most of the VaR results on my own.
30+: Joined a new bank as a client services risk analyst (while still risk it is a revenue generating role and here is referred to as front office). At this point I see no barriers for me joining my banks sales team if I choose; I work very closely with them.

Some tips:
1. Make sure your boss is aware of your goals. There is nothing wrong with telling your boss you would like to work your way to front office. 3/3 of my bosses so far were totally fine with this.
2. Network in and out of your group. Get to know a lot of people and make sure everyone likes you
3. Keep your ears out. When you hear of a new group forming or a position opening up DO NOT WAIT. It won't come to you. Go over to the group lead and have a conversation.

TLDR; "No"

 

[Alexandre Chretien]

1. Make sure your boss is aware of your goals. There is nothing wrong with telling your boss you would like to work your way to front office. 3/3 of my bosses so far were totally fine with this.
2. Network in and out of your group. Get to know a lot of people and make sure everyone likes you

These tips worked for me too.

 

[Gavin L]

Thanks for the comments, guys

 

[Ken Abbott]

Ha, I feel like I log on once a year to reply to the same conversation.

I started 3 years ago as an IT business analyst in a big bank's risk department. I would say that is as far back office as you can go... Here is what I did.

(in months)
0-6: IT business analyst
6-20: Joined a new team which was to merge back office risk with middle office risk called the "Infrastructure Team"
20-30: Joined yet a new team, this one in risk "middle office". Started off just managing the flow of incoming tests of new front office trading positions, by the end I was analyzing most of the VaR results on my own.
30+: Joined a new bank as a client services risk analyst (while still risk it is a revenue generating role and here is referred to as front office). At this point I see no barriers for me joining my banks sales team if I choose; I work very closely with them.

Some tips:
1. Make sure your boss is aware of your goals. There is nothing wrong with telling your boss you would like to work your way to front office. 3/3 of my bosses so far were totally fine with this.
2. Network in and out of your group. Get to know a lot of people and make sure everyone likes you
3. Keep your ears out. When you hear of a new group forming or a position opening up DO NOT WAIT. It won't come to you. Go over to the group lead and have a conversation.

TLDR; "No"

He speaks the truth.