COMPARE UCB MFE VS. CMU MSCF (NYC Campus)

[FE_Starter]

I've been admitted to both programs and they both need me to confirm VERY soon. Here are my thoughts:

UCB MFE

Pros: 1. Bigger name; 2. Haas reputation and network; 3. Cheaper (65k vs 77k of CMU); 4. Higher placement salaries than CMU as shown on their websites; 5. Smaller class size (66 vs 92 for CMU); 6. Nice weather;

Cons: 1. Starts and finish in March so a bit off employment cycles; 2. Location disadvantage for finance jobs

CMU MSCF

Pros: 1. Better reputation and connections in east coast financial districts than UCB; 2. NYC location advantages; 3. More courses to learn (16 months vs 12 months of UCB);

Cons: 1. Remote education in NYC "campus"

On Quantnet, CMU has 4.5-star rating while UBC has 3.5 with a few negative posts.

It is a tough choice. Overall I am leaning towards UCB now. Please leave any thoughts. Thanks!

 

[moretodo]

If you want to do S&T, go to CMU. If you want to learn Quant stuff with a lot of programming (which is good btw!), go to CMU.

Otherwise, go to UCB.

 

[Finance Applicant]

CMU is overrated in my opinion... do some research and look at their real stats. Plus do you really want to take half of your classes via stream?

 

[FE_Starter]

If you want to do S&T, go to CMU. If you want to learn Quant stuff with a lot of programming (which is good btw!), go to CMU.

Otherwise, go to UCB.

Thanks. Do most of S&T persons start with trader's assistant?

 

[moretodo]

No, if you end up at a bank, you'll probably start as an Analyst or Associate. At prop trading shops, like SIG, you'll end up as a Trader's assistant first - its not great but not that bad - 70-75k + 25k bonus in the middle of nowhere....will at least save a lot...

With regards to CMU being overrated, I believe so is UCB and might I add significantly more than CMU. A large percentage (>80%) of their placement although in prestigious firms is in Quant Research, Strats, Risk and other support roles etc. and not in core finance roles. Yes, they do place at the Associate level but that is primarily due to the fact that the candidate has prior work experience/PhD. If you lack both of them, you at best will start as a "Senior Analyst" unless you make the cut for MS which is largely profile based. It has very little to do with the program. Core finance roles like Trading, be it quantitative or fundamental, or S&T or investment/asset management roles are very very few, even more few this year compared to the last at least compared over the first 2 months. In this regard, CMU and NYU are significantly better; like there isn't even a comparison between them and UCB - they are not even on the same plane. They may not place 100% of their students and their starting salaries are lower (the average age of the incoming class is also significantly lower so this is expected), but they do place a significantly large % of candidates in roles that have a lot of potential in the sense that they would be significantly more rewarding in the long run compared to these support roles that have the edge immediately after graduation.

As for UCB, apparently, the consensus is that the last batch that just graduated was great and the current batch is not good at all. Also, the internship roles that have come in this year are not nearly as good as compared to the previous year apparently apart from MS taking 10-11 students again.

 

[markhobbus]

UCB students generally have more experience than CMU students which explains why they have higher starting salaries. Don't know you're work history but entry level salaries are pretty standardized for these kind of roles and going to UCB vs CMU will not affect it.

 

[FE_Starter]

No, if you end up at a bank, you'll probably start as an Analyst or Associate. At prop trading shops, like SIG, you'll end up as a Trader's assistant first - its not great but not that bad - 70-75k + 25k bonus in the middle of nowhere....will at least save a lot...

With regards to CMU being overrated, I believe so is UCB and might I add significantly more than CMU. A large percentage (>80%) of their placement although in prestigious firms is in Quant Research, Strats, Risk and other support roles etc. and not in core finance roles. Yes, they do place at the Associate level but that is primarily due to the fact that the candidate has prior work experience/PhD. If you lack both of them, you at best will start as a "Senior Analyst" unless you make the cut for MS which is largely profile based. It has very little to do with the program. Core finance roles like Trading, be it quantitative or fundamental, or S&T or investment/asset management roles are very very few, even more few this year compared to the last at least compared over the first 2 months. In this regard, CMU and NYU are significantly better; like there isn't even a comparison between them and UCB - they are not even on the same plane. They may not place 100% of their students and their starting salaries are lower (the average age of the incoming class is also significantly lower so this is expected), but they do place a significantly large % of candidates in roles that have a lot of potential in the sense that they would be significantly more rewarding in the long run compared to these support roles that have the edge immediately after graduation.

As for UCB, apparently, the consensus is that the last batch that just graduated was great and the current batch is not good at all. Also, the internship roles that have come in this year are not nearly as good as compared to the previous year apparently apart from MS taking 10-11 students again.

How did you find info about the current batch? They haven't started internship yet.

 

[vtomar]

Hello FE_Starter! Good question that u asked him (moretodo). Moretodo is one of those who had applied to UCB MFE but got waitlisted. To bump himself up in the list, he started targeting students who were confused about whether they should join the MFE program or not. He started interacting with students on this forum as if he was giving first hand/insider info regarding the program hoping that they would get turned off by the information he was providing thus improving his chances of getting in. For more info about how he has gone about spewing venom across the forum, here is a minor example: https://www.quantnet.com/threads/ucb-mfe-admit-conditions.16263/ . I am an alum of UCB MFE program and I could not be any happier or in any better position than I currently am, thanks to the program. please PM me if u need more info or if you want me to put you in touch with either the alums or current students of the UCB MFE program.

 

[moretodo]

This is a bit weird but this account is being used by 2 people...The views mentioned are mine and not the other's that vtomar is referring to...whose views I did not agree with as well that are mentioned in the link vtomar provides before entering the program...

I am a current UCB MFE student. PM me and I can speak with you over the phone. I can provide a screenshot of my UCB MFE transcript as proof...no name though..

As for vtomar, please note that his profile was really really good. All his batchmates I know say hes really smart. I've briefly spoken with him as well. He seems to be a focused and a nice guy and quite passionate and opinionated.

He quite frankly would have ended up where he ended up even without this program given his prior work experience in my personal opinion.

This is getting to be too controversial and unlike my friend who likes hot-headed debates, I dont. I can provide you with my perspective of UCB vs CMU given the kind of opportunities my close friend is interviewing for at CMU MSCF and vtomar can provide his. I am not going to attempt to debunk what he states.

PS : I was admitted to both CMU and UCB. I chose UCB but it seems to be currently a mistake. Do not get me wrong. I'll always be supportive of the program and its graduates in the future but that does not change the fact that CMU is better at least in my opinion in hindsight.

 

[FE_Starter]

Hello FE_Starter! Good question that u asked him (moretodo). Moretodo is one of those who had applied to UCB MFE but got waitlisted. To bump himself up in the list, he started targeting students who were confused about whether they should join the MFE program or not. He started interacting with students on this forum as if he was giving first hand/insider info regarding the program hoping that they would get turned off by the information he was providing thus improving his chances of getting in. For more info about how he has gone about spewing venom across the forum, here is a minor example: https://www.quantnet.com/threads/ucb-mfe-admit-conditions.16263/ . I am an alum of UCB MFE program and I could not be any happier or in any better position than I currently am, thanks to the program. please PM me if u need more info or if you want me to put you in touch with either the alums or current students of the UCB MFE program.

Good point lol

 

[ABA]

I for one chose CMU NYC over UCB. But the fact is, its all the same.... I have started viewing these schools (top 10 or even more) as one joint program and where many get their shots at interviews and the better ones succeed... I was infact was torn by the idea of choosing one out of a few great schools but the now I have come to disregard any pros or cons and utterly respect the competition from everywhere...

All the best people!!

 

[FE_Starter]

I for one chose CMU NYC over UCB. But the fact is, its all the same.... I have started viewing these schools (top 10 or even more) as one joint program and where many get their shots at interviews and the better ones succeed... I was infact was torn by the idea of choosing one out of a few great schools but the now I have come to disregard any pros or cons and utterly respect the competition from everywhere...

All the best people!!

I understand. But a lot of times in the life we have to choose and we need to find some reasons or criteria to base on. Instead of tossing coins, I evaluate pros and cons.

 

[moretodo]

Take UCB and then have vtomar interview you like he's interviewing us this year just after graduating from the program! Amazing feat!

 

[Apoorv]

I am a current student at Berkeley and do not agree with the views posted on this thread. It's been just 2 months into the program and a lot of students have had the opportunity to interview with firms and many already have offers. I do not see any significant change in the roles being offered this year and are easily comparable to stats of the previous batch (posted on their site).
FE_Starter: My views on the cons you've mentioned about UCB is that they are hyped a lot more than they are actually relevant.
1. The spring start and finish can be perceived as an advantage as you will intern in Fall facing significantly less competition.
2. Location advantage is relevant only if you network well, a point missed by many imo. At UCB, the placement cell does the networking for you and places a significant number of students in NY.

 

[moretodo]

Approximately 14 students have offers that have been accepted. That is significantly lower than the previous year compared across the same instant in the progression of the program this year relative to the previous year/batch. Also, what views do you not agree with ?

 

[vaibhav]

Both the program are nice and you will be good going to either places. I am a current MFE student at UCB and I feel that UCB is at par with other universities in terms of academics, but it is way above any other universities when placement is concerned. Almost every brand come here and moreover if you strongly feel that you should be interviewed for a given post for which you were not shortlisted then you can talk with the director of the course stating why you think that you are the perfect candidate and she tries her best in getting an interview call for you. Their are a lot of small things like this which make this an unique program. All the best.
Also moretodo I am pretty sure that more than 14 students have offers. Few people have multiple offers. Program has started just two months back and what more do you expect..seriously?

 

[moretodo]

Having offers is not what is relevant. Number of students who have accepted offers is what matters only. And that is around 14. It was significantly more than 14 last year. Seriously, I expected around 20. It will reach around 18 in a week's time though.

With regards to the best firms coming on campus, I personally will be a bit circumspect of that claim. Maybe by the end of the internship placement period, that might well be true but it isn't up till now. We've had MS and Blackrock and Credit Suisse HK. That's it up till now!

The whole talk to the Director and ask her to get you an interview for a role that you are really keen on if you were initially sidelined hasn't yet worked or resulted in an offer for anyone as yet or anyone in the last year as far as I know - so I'm personally not sure how much of value would one put on it.

Again, Vaibhav, Apoorv and vtomar are really smart people and had/have great profiles coming into the program. The former two have been getting a lot of interview calls. Go to the Current students page and check their profiles out. The true mettle of a program is its ability to place competent candidates with not so glossy and attractive profiles into great roles courtesy a good education and a good launchpad.

And after comparing the opportunities UCB MFE has provided me with compared to my good friend at CMU MSCF with a similar/slightly inferior profile leads me to believe that CMU MSCF is significantly better.

 

[vtomar]

i thought u were just an impersonator till date but you have proved me wrong. you might also be suffering from split personality where you end up creating an imaginary friend in your head who ends up sharing an account with you making it easy to justify so many contradictory statements you have given on this forum across multiple threads.

Moreover, you must be really bad at inferring results from the statistical analysis that u do. probably that's why you're having such a hard time finding a job whichever school you are enrolled in. Do you actually re-read your own arguments?! 'Supposedly' 14 offers that become 18 in a week's time and your expectation being 20! Ever used something as simple as standard deviation in any of your analysis? You might end up throwing most of your time series analysis results just because your out of sample alpha wasn't exactly same as your in-sample results. How do you plan to ever generate positive PnL whichever firm hires you?

And u mentioned about me interviewing right after I graduate, doesn't that speak volumes of the calibre of the students enrolled in UCB MFE, both past and present? It also speaks about the strong alumni network and tells u that more often than not you might be interviewed by one of the UCB alums.

Please stop making sweeping statements for entire past and current batches. I owe where I am to the director and the staff. And not just me, my batchmates do as well. You seem to know more about my career path progression and where I could have gone even without the program. Let me be the judge of that.

Had you spent the amount of time and effort preparing for your interview (reading the green book, red book, course materials) u spent talking garbage, you might have gone places. Quite a few recommendations for you: Invest your time and energy on being positive and constructive criticism. More often than not, the fault lies within us. If you aren't able to succeed it's you who is doing something wrong. The easier thing to do for non-achievers is pass on the blame to everyone else except yourself.

 

[moretodo]

Your statistical analysis of my argument is completely wrong and an indication of your lack of knowledge of econometrics.

I clearly stated 20 BY THE END OF THE FIRST TERM.

Its been close to 2 weeks since the first term ended and the number has yet to reach even 18. Standard deviation effects on the expected no. need to be evaluated at the same instant in time.

So when you compute standard errors in time series, do you estimate it with regards to your model estimate at the same time as the realized value or with the value 2 weeks ago ?

Also, internship offers tend to be bulky that is you see offers coming in chunks so the accepted offers variable would increment in jumps.

Have you carefully read what I've written in the previous posts ? How would a non MFE student know that your interviewing candidates for a researcher role involving KDB+ and R at your firm and in person interviews are scheduled shortly with exactly 4 candidates in contention.

I don't want to argue with you. It saddens me that I will be an alum to a program that has impolite unprofessional alums such as you.

I've provided my views and opinions. If someone is naive to interpret your rudeness and impoliteness to be a supportive argument in favor of the UCB MFE program, they deserve to be misguided and taken advantage of for the rest of their lives.

I can back them up by providing a comparison of the opportunities that have been provided at UCB compared to CMU for this year if someone is interested either via a PM or on a public thread.