COMPARE UCB MFE vs CMU MSCF

[unhappy_mscf]

I know, MSCF students don't know how to get jobs, especially compared to MBA students, which have better numbers. I can't wait until this years numbers come out.

 

[ruruouni]

With regards to MSCF vs Berkeley I was in a similar situation last year and I chose CMU and posted some information I gathered here :
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/cmu-mscf-pittsburg-vs-berkeley-mfe.6326/#post-90045

 

[babinu]

this.

a lot of it is on the students, as well. most come from environments where getting good grades has always been enough. newsflash: that won't cut it anymore. many students don't follow the markets at all, couldn't give you an investment pitch (for any product), and say that they want to trade without knowing anything about trading or what products they want to trade and why.

cmu teaches you a lot and brings employers to students, but the students have to close. cmu can't drag you across the finish line.

granted, some students might just have a string of bad luck, but i'd be willing to bet a good amount of money that those cases are far less common than students going into interviews and dinging themselves within the first few minutes.

Agree with this here. CMU is doing a lot by bringing employers and preparing students. The rest of it is on the students.

 

[unhappy_mscf]

If you think 2011-2012 was bad, imagine how the 2008 class probably felt.

2008 was only 2% worse than 2011. I guess not much has changed since then so I think students can imagine how that class felt.

 

[wzglljp]

" The majority of the people go to S&T or quant programs at major banks." This isn't true.

depends on how you define majority, but CMU did has the higher percentage of student going to S&T and FO quant compare to other MFE program. Through me stat if I am wrong. Do not quote my sentence and throw back question mark!!!

 

[eager_to_learn]

Hi All,

Thank you very much for sharing your opinion. I think one factor that goes in favor of cmu is that

(a) Location = NYC
(b) classes are in the evening -- from 5:30-8:30 pm
(c) all lectures are video recorded, so if you miss a class, you can cover up by watching the video lecture

The way I am looking at this, is that cmu provides you the opportunity to network with people on the street (you can meet them for coffee while they are at work, since you are in NYC + you don't have classes going on during the daytime). on the other hand, Berkeley is far from NYC, so networking is not physically possible.

Can any cmu students comment whether this is any advantage in the real world?

Thanks guys !!

 

[neoz]

I think the advantage of NY is minimal, if any. People usually don't have time to meet students for coffee and personally, I'd find it over-the-top. If you have specific questions, you can just send an email and people will reply at their convenience. Don't be surprised if people don't even reply to your emails, so you can imagine that a meet-up would be even less likely. Unless you're well-polished with MBA-level networking skills, that meetup for coffee strategy could also backfire on you if you do something stupid.

I think the main advantage is less travel time for your interviews and/or company visits. Living in NY could be more fun also, that is if you manage to find some free time. Other than that, I don't see much of a difference.

 

[waterForEle]

Hi, I may be the first one here vote for PhD program. I know you are not sure whether you want to go into Finance, however Mathematical Finance is more math than Finance in my opinion. From your maths background, I think you will do well in PhD program and enjoyed another 4-5 years relaxed time (appear younger than people working in banks, lolx). After PhD, you still can join the industry.

It pays more working in financial industry. However not many people can go far to make it to manager or someone who really matters. Of oucrse it depends on personal preference. PhD + some industry experience may lead to a MFE professor in the future!

 

[unhappy_mscf]

It gives me no pleasure to report that 2013 recruiting numbers are up for MSCF. They are worse than last years and average salary is down too. Almost 1 in 5 students don't have jobs and half the class that do have jobs will be making less than $88k.

Neoz and I actually agree on a lot of what goes on in the program, but we drew different conclusions. His/her view seems to be more of a "end justifies the means." I am skeptical of this, but especially when the "end" is no longer there. Some may say its the economy, but I think its the opposite. I think the only reason the program had acceptable numbers previously is because the bull market was covering up all the shortcomings of the MSCF program. I'm glad we exposed some real issues with the program, but we barely scratched the surface. I hope anyone who decides to matriculate does his/her own research outside of this forum. I'll admit I did not do enough of this and I regret it. I find it very difficult to recommend this program to anyone.

 

[mfegrad]

again, some of it is the economy and a lot of it is on the students themselves. since 1/3 or more of the class is most likely fresh out of college (if previous years are any guidance), that should absolutely lower the starting salary.

if i purchased a honda accord and expected it to seat fifteen and fly, i'd also have a difficult time recommending it. the program isn't perfect, but your issue is with yourself, if you're truly being honest.

 

[eager_to_learn]

Ken Abbott - Sir, I have been reading some of your posts on QN, and I must admit that I have been very impressed with your superior communication skills along with your deep understanding of the industry. Since you're in a senior position at a very respectable firm, I wanted to request you for your opinion about my situation. I'm mainly trying to decide between CMU (NYC campus) and Berkeley MFE.


- Senior at top ivy league, majoring in math & CS.
- Interned at Goldman Sachs in a technology group, which got me interested in finance.
- Taken some finance courses, but not yet sure what specific area of finance I'd like to work in.
- From what I understand so far, S&T would limit my options in the future - I could either continue in S&T in an Investment Bank, or I could become a trader at a Hedge Fund. As a result, I'm not too keen on S&T. Instead, I would like to pursue careers within finance which would keep my options open for the future.
- Again, from what I understand of finance so far, I'd be interested in working in portfolio management or a hedge fund, but as a portfolio manager & not as a trader
I'd be grateful if you could share your opinion.
Thank You.

 

[wow]

It gives me no pleasure to report that 2013 recruiting numbers are up for MSCF. They are worse than last years and average salary is down too. Almost 1 in 5 students don't have jobs and half the class that do have jobs will be making less than $88k.

Neoz and I actually agree on a lot of what goes on in the program, but we drew different conclusions. His/her view seems to be more of a "end justifies the means." I am skeptical of this, but especially when the "end" is no longer there. Some may say its the economy, but I think its the opposite. I think the only reason the program had acceptable numbers previously is because the bull market was covering up all the shortcomings of the MSCF program. I'm glad we exposed some real issues with the program, but we barely scratched the surface. I hope anyone who decides to matriculate does his/her own research outside of this forum. I'll admit I did not do enough of this and I regret it. I find it very difficult to recommend this program to anyone.

$88k + $20k signing....this doesn't include year end which is where the real cake's at. What else do you want? Super models giving you bjs every morning? Get real dude. If you can't cut it in the MSCF's simulated environment then the real world's gonna eat you alive.

 

[eager_to_learn]

Couple of Qs for CMU current students / alumni --

1. Do you have lectures every day of the week ? How many hours of lectures do you have in a week?
2. Roughly how many hours do you spend on homework in a week?

Thanks!

 

[mfegrad]

Couple of Qs for CMU current students / alumni --

1. Do you have lectures every day of the week ? How many hours of lectures do you have in a week?
2. Roughly how many hours do you spend on homework in a week?

Thanks!

1. saturdays have TA hours, and sundays have no classes.
2. 168 - hours spent in class - hours you need of sleep - hours to run and grab some food. basically...a lot.

 

[Math Andrew]

Couple of Qs for CMU current students / alumni --

1. Do you have lectures every day of the week ? How many hours of lectures do you have in a week?
2. Roughly how many hours do you spend on homework in a week?

Thanks!

1. we have classes 3 or 4 days a week depending on the semester. Saturdays have TAs as mentioned by mfegrad, but they are not required (or you could watch them online)

2. it depends on the class and on your skills. But yes, it's a lot of work. If you are able to manage your time, you have also some free time here and there.

 

[Zeldino]

As long as you're on the subject of free time, here's a question...

Is it possible to do sports during the program (MSCF or MFE)? I'm talking about 2 hrs practice every day... Is it possible to create that much free time for yourself or is that just too much time taken away from the important stuff?

 

[Math Andrew]

I would say that if you are able to correctly manage your time, you will have time to practice sport

 

[unhappy_mscf]

I would say that if you are able to correctly manage your time, you will have time to practice sport

Are you joking?

 

[Lyosha]

mscf - why so sad?

 

[Lyosha]

There is a ton of misinformation on this forum about MSCF. I agree and would choose Berkeley.

... you want a job in Cali and not in NYC?

It's really a toss up. You can scream bloody murder all you want, but a couple of years ago a student from Berkeley came forward and did the exact same thing, strongly disputing the employment figures that that university officially publishes. At least you're not saying that the info CMU puts on its website is fabricated.

The toss up goes as follows:

Berkeley, being a state school is cheaper (and also shorter). Also much nicer weather and California-based jobs.

CMU gives you access to NYC. Which will either open unbelievable amounts of doors to you, or be something you squander completely. I interviewed with a hedge fund that only interviewed me and a couple of candidates from MSCF. They were only there because the guy that runs the hedge fund could walk to the MSCF campus and ask them for a resume book. This is what Berkeley just cannot give you, no matter how much they spin the whole "we're on the bank recruitment circuit too!" line. (the part they omit - "along with everyone else")