Another PhD in maths/stats?

[fairsky]

Hi everyone,

I am a phd in astronomy, now I am going to work as a quant.
(BG: BSc in Physics, graduated with distinction [also, got high grades in maths]; MSc in Theoretical Physics. Both done in China. PhD in astronomy in UK 2014. 5 academic papers so far, developed a numerical tool for my phd project, solving odes and doing mcmc simulations.)

I can program in fortran, c; I also can program in Python, and in php and mysql (not intensively or sophisticated I knew....).
However, I am not strong in C++, because I just started a bit since last month...

But it seemed that there is no chance for me to realise this idea in working as a quant, nor as an entry level quant/analyst.

Do I need to pursue another phd in maths or in stats, in order to be judged in proficiency?
Any comments or questions are welcomed and appreicated.

Thank you,

 

[Parallax]

No, just gain the skills through other avenues of learning.

 

[fairsky]

No, just gain the skills through other avenues of learning.

Thank you for the reply.

I did start my self-learning in "portfolio analysis" and "math models in finance", but in purpose of doing another phd.

As for other learning, could you point it explicitly?I assume you were saying real practical work experience. but... it is hard i think... as far as I can see.

Cheers,

 

[Parallax]

Based on your resume, you are a very intelligent person with advanced degrees in mathematically-oriented fields. That's going to bode well with any firm seeking a quant. Now you may need to brush up on some of the math again, but that shouldn't be difficult for you.

The two main areas you may lack are general financial knowledge and programming (language-specific, not programming in general). How much you need of either will depend on the type of position and firm your aiming for. You can gain significant knowledge in these areas without going through another PhD program. You only have so many years on this planet after all.

I can't speak for the HFT/prop type firms, but asset management firms often seek out people like you for quant roles. They want people with diverse backgrounds (but mathematically-oriented) who they can train their own way.

 

[fairsky]

Based on your resume, you are a very intelligent person with advanced degrees in mathematically-oriented fields. That's going to bode well with any firm seeking a quant. Now you may need to brush up on some of the math again, but that shouldn't be difficult for you.

The two main areas you may lack are general financial knowledge and programming (language-specific, not programming in general). How much you need of either will depend on the type of position and firm your aiming for. You can gain significant knowledge in these areas without going through another PhD program. You only have so many years on this planet after all.

I can't speak for the HFT/prop type firms, but asset management firms often seek out people like you for quant roles. They want people with diverse backgrounds (but mathematically-oriented) who they can train their own way.

Well, I appreciate your comments.

So far, I have applied to a few firms, including bloomberg etc [I could not say much in case I violated the forum policy though i don't know if there was.].
Those positions aimed at software developer [i only applied to 'entry level' which were stated in their job description], and my purpose is to gain experience in C++ and knowledge in finance/bussisness, because they said they have training scheme.

I may have some rush in getting a job (in any place/country, etc)... And my guess is that my experience or ability of learning was not persuasive/convincing since i just got phd in astronomy but no bg in math-finance or like. How ppl will link it to quant? I had not got a tiny piece of fish-scale in this huge financial ocean, in 2 mths hunting.

What is wrong with myself....? I wondered.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

IMO I think you will do well.

Knowing Fortran and C is good; a lot of C++ code looks likes C and Fortran (i.e. algorithms use procedures/modules). You will pick up OOP easily but C++ is a huge language.

Yet another PhD is not needed IMO. But maybe also look at some finance applications for your CV.

Good luck.

 

[fairsky]

IMO I think you will do well.

Knowing Fortran and C is good; a lot of C++ code looks likes C and Fortran (i.e. algorithms use procedures/modules). You will pick up OOP easily but C++ is a huge language.

Yet another PhD is not needed IMO.

Good luck.

Thank you.

I had ever hated both C++ and Java .... sorry to myself.
btw: My experience in programming started from QBasic and Pascal and F77 actually, about 14 years ago when I was in my high school.

The one thing I really like it programming, algorithm, though i am not a graduate in computer sciences.
So, now as you said, I need to do C++ to meet their requirement. But I prefer to learn it in a firm, such as in an entry level job.

Is it a huge stuff? I have no idea.... but I just found class is sometimes a good stuff, sometimes a bad one... Also there are too many libs....

What to say? I know I am on the lid of hotpot like an ant [hopefully you are knowing what i am saying. A Chinese proverb.]...

 

[fairsky]

IMO ... But maybe also look at some finance applications for your CV.

To reply your latest comment.

Yes, I did read CV/Resume of MFEs who graduated from NYU, Princeton, etc.
Then I felt ashamed...

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Thank you.

I had ever hated both C++ and Java .... sorry to myself.
btw: My experience in programming started from QBasic and Pascal and F77 actually, about 14 years ago when I was in my high school.

The one thing I really like it programming, algorithm, though i am not a graduate in computer sciences.
So, now as you said, I need to do C++ to meet their requirement. But I prefer to learn it in a firm, such as in an entry level job.

Is it a huge stuff? I have no idea.... but I just found class is sometimes a good stuff, sometimes a bad one... Also there are too many libs....

What to say? I know I am on the lid of hotpot like an ant [hopefully you are knowing what i am saying. A Chinese proverb.]...

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step".

Laozi

 

[pingu]

...
I am a phd in astronomy, now I am going to work as a quant...
Do I need to pursue another phd in maths or in stats, in order to be judged in proficiency?
Any comments or questions are welcomed and appreicated.

Thank you,

why do you need another degree if you already are going to work as a Quant?

 

[GoIllini]

To reply your latest comment.

Yes, I did read CV/Resume of MFEs who graduated from NYU, Princeton, etc.
Then I felt ashamed...

Hi. You read one of my CVs. I can't speak for everyone at Princeton but I for one have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to C++. Yes, I was the CS major who worked as an analytics programmer and then a desk developer.

When I started at Lehman in 2007, I had no idea what I was doing with Java. But I worked as part of a team of developers and I learned by experience. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was learning stuff every day and becoming a much better coder in the process. They *expect* you to not come in knowing everything from day one. They saved you from a career in academia, and they (particularly traders) have certain opinions about academia that would piss off a lot of PhDs, professors, and graduate students. I am not going to repeat them here for fear of creating an angry mob, but you can get my drift.

The first six months of every job are difficult, and they are especially difficult in your first job.

Keep working. Keep getting better. And chin up.

 

[fairsky]

why do you need another degree if you already are going to work as a Quant?

Well, good question.

Firstly, I do like maths and programming. For a view of my career, I'd like to either work in MF or to get a job in Financial markets.
Secondly, I am in a hardship in hunting a job in financial markets in this moment, and most positions required much more than what I possessed, though I believe it is not difficult for me to learn those stuffs (surely not all of them in a short period, such as 1 month).

(On either side, I do confirm that there may be hardships for me, but why should we focus on hardship instead of possibility of getting jobs done? However, I am very clear that none care who I am, and how would I approach the solution if I cannot show him/her evidence. Now, the situation is I had no strong evidence, such as work exp in financial market previously, not PhD in math/stats. So I want to make this not-so-good choice to match up their appetite. At least I like math, data analysis, if I got a PhD in math/stats, I can at least move on in academia if industry sides still ignore me.)

I do not care if my answer satisfied you, but that is my idea for my choice.
Reality is oppressive, life is challenging, math is attractive and beautiful. It would be exciting and my pleasure if I can someday offer my capability to either academia or industry.
That is it.

 

[fairsky]

Hi. You read one of my CVs. I can't speak for everyone at Princeton but I for one have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to C++. Yes, I was the CS major who worked as an analytics programmer and then a desk developer.

When I started at Lehman in 2007, I had no idea what I was doing with Java. But I worked as part of a team of developers and I learned by experience. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was learning stuff every day and becoming a much better coder in the process. They *expect* you to not come in knowing everything from day one. They saved you from a career in academia, and they (particularly traders) have certain opinions about academia that would piss off a lot of PhDs, professors, and graduate students. I am not going to repeat them here for fear of creating an angry mob, but you can get my drift.

The first six months of every job are difficult, and they are especially difficult in your first job.

Keep working. Keep getting better. And chin up.

Thanks for your encouragement. I don't know the real situation you had experienced. But I may agree with your saying "They *expect* you to not come in knowing everything from day one." Just I have no idea to make my CV attractive or persuasive or convincing. After all, you are the one form one of those Princeton/MIT/Caltech/IC/etc...

Nevertheless, I also think most will agree a good starting point is of advantage.

Right, I still am working. To challenge myself, not to fit anything in financial market though I am looking for a job in these fields. The former is much more preferred than the latter, at any stage of my life, no matter how hard the life is at the moment.

I am not feared to say that I would turn to research even if I got experience in industry. To explore sth new or mysterious or underlying attracts me most.
Though I am now in dark age, I would like to think about the exploration and adventure in different fields is my ultimate duty/goal, rather than *stick* to work for any profits, academia or other similar field.

But, who knows.

 

[GoIllini]

Just I have no idea to make my CV attractive or persuasive or convincing. After all, you are the one form one of those Princeton/MIT/Caltech/IC/etc...

Oh come on. Most quantitative PhD programs are as selective as Princeton MFin (not Princeton PhD). If you got a funded PhD, you are not allowed to put people from master's programs in a separate camp than you. (It would be a lower camp)

Right, I still am working. To challenge myself, not to fit anything in financial market though I am looking for a job in these fields. The former is much more preferred than the latter, at any stage of my life, no matter how hard the life is at the moment.

One other thing you need to be working on is written English communication skills if you are working in the US or the UK.

Though I am now in dark age, I would like to think about the exploration and adventure in different fields is my ultimate duty/goal, rather than *stick* to work for any profits, academia or other similar field.

Sure. My dream is to discover ships that have sunk in Lake Michigan. This is more of a hobby for me, though. But the hobby will get funded through work. By working in finance, you trade in the opportunity to pursue your dreams now for the money to pursue them later.

 

[bigbadwolf]

By working in finance, you trade in the opportunity to pursue your dreams now for the money to pursue them later.

By working in finance, you trade in the opportunity to pursue your dreams now for the ever-receding mirage that you will be able to pursue them later.