Back Office IT to Quant/S&T

JDawg · 6/16/11

I'm currently doing a summer internship in technology at a BB in NYC (not at the flagship building though). The work I'm doing is back office IT stuff (think databases). I'm a rising senior at a non-target.

Does anyone have any advice as to how I could possibly land a quant role or S&T role for full-time? I'm seriously considering just cold-emailing a ton of people who work at the same company and work in the area(s) I'm interested in. I feel like this could come off as annoying and desperate though.

Has anyone here actually managed to make the jump from back office to front office? If so, how did you pull it off?

Alexander Krosky · 6/16/11

I know one guy who went from back office IT to MD of quant prop trading at a BB. He impressed his manager with his intelligence and ultimately the manager got him a job on a desk. A lot of times managers aren't gracious enough to do that though. They'd rather keep talent for their own team instead of helping that person's career.

JDawg · 6/16/11

I don't think my manager knows people in S&T/quant, they're not even in the same building. Not to say that I shouldn't work my ass off...

myampol · 6/16/11

Get an MFE...

GoalSeeker · 6/16/11

I have normally seen a handful of people in IT move from bank office to front office, it basically starts with working closely with one front office quant group until you understand their business and thinking well and then when they feel you know enough.. you might become a quant developer and then move on to joining them.. its a long process but you learn on the way

Andy Nguyen · 6/16/11

JDawg said:
The work I'm doing is back office IT stuff (think databases).

How do you like it? Are you a superstar at what you do there?

Has anyone here actually managed to make the jump from back office to front office? If so, how did you pull it off?

You will hear anecdotes on people moving from BO to FO but the chance of that happening is lower than people make it out to be. There isn't enough room for everyone who wants to be trader, FO.

KaiRu · 6/17/11

JDawg said:
Has anyone here actually managed to make the jump from back office to front office? If so, how did you pull it off?

I had an opportunity to work with three devs who moved to FO recently - one moved to flow trading and two others became quants (desk and algo trading, respectively). All are extremely good developers and worked very hard for 7-10 years in IT for the same BB to get perferct understanding of the business.

JDawg · 6/17/11

How do you like it? Are you a superstar at what you do there?

It's way too early to tell, it's only my 2nd week. Nothing I'd learn here is really transferable to want I ultimately want to do though, so I don't have much motivation to go above and beyond.

I understand that going from BO to FO is hard, but that's no reason for me to give up. That's why I made this post: so I could find out how other people did it and use those anecdotes to help me give it my best shot. My preconception going into the internship was that most people in BO were just FO wannabes who couldn't make the cut (hence I didn't even consider the possibility of jumping from BO to FO). Maybe that's true in ops, but that's definitely not the case in IT. Most of my fellow interns are CS/Info Systems majors that have probably never even picked up a WSJ.

If I fail to get into what I want for FT, I can always get an MFE.

JDawg · 6/17/11

KaiRu said:
I had an opportunity to work with three devs who moved to FO recently - one moved to flow trading and two others became quants (desk and algo trading, respectively). All are extremely good developers and worked very hard for 7-10 years in IT for the same BB to get perferct understanding of the business.

I personally wouldn't be willing to sacrifice 7-10 years of my youth doing work I don't care about just to land a quant job :-\
It is encouraging to know that the transition is possible though.

Alexander Krosky · 6/17/11

JDawg said:
I personally wouldn't be willing to sacrifice 7-10 years of my youth doing work I don't care about just to land a quant job :-\
It is encouraging to know that the transition is possible though.

Then get an MFE. No front office guy is going to go "hey, I got an email from this random IT guy, I'll bring him on board!" You need some kind of track record.

Andy Nguyen · 6/17/11

JDawg said:
I personally wouldn't be willing to sacrifice 7-10 years of my youth doing work I don't care about just to land a quant job :-\

This is the attitude people shouldn't have.
A lot of work you will do is boring and under-appreciated, either it FO or BO. You can't excel if you don't find ways to like what you do. And if you don't excel or enjoy your work, people can see it easily. Unmotivated employees aren't exactly in high demand.

Let's be clear, a lot of "quant work" is not glamorous. You will be doing data cleaning, IT chores.

Ryan · 6/17/11

I kind of make it now. although not in trading yet, I'm now working as hedge fund quant in risk modeling from one year BB IT. I think I'm in a much better position now if I want to do investment analysis and portfolio management in the future. It is not that difficult but the difference between u and me is, I worked in first line support of business when in bank and learned a lot about business.

Honestly my advice is different from others here. Don't stay in IT too long and don't wait for internal referral/transfer within the company if you want to do more FO work. It is rare that a trader/quant would refer you (although one of the trader on desk was going to refer me but no headcount in group at that time). Stay in 1-2 years and learn everything about business and solid programming. Then decorate your resume to make it looks more quantitative/business. If u are pure tech, try algo trading or quant dev first.

The principle is, if you only work in IT for a short time, they will consider you a junior quant/trader, which only requires natural intelligence and basic understanding about business. You also have good edges compared to other fresh graduates. But if you stay too long, they would just think you are an IT guy.

I know many people make it same way. One of my previous co-workers in the team went to BB FO quant, the other went to BB couterparty trading. one in my analyst batch went to IBD (which is super rare and amazing), another two went to BB risk quant. I also know a senior guy from developer to MD in stat arb prop trading.

So if u r really smart and working hard and following the correct steps, you have good chances. The only thing you may lack is school brand name. Unfortunetly, most if not all people I mention above are from target or semi target schools. Therefore u may consider MFE instead.

JDawg · 6/17/11

Andy: Ok I should have clarified. What I actually meant to say was:
"I personally wouldn't be willing to sacrifice 7-10 years of my youth doing work I don't care about just for the slim chance of landing a quant job. And if I fail to land that quant job, then I'm 30 years old and have successfully pigeonholed myself into IT (probably for life)."

Ryan: Thanks for the info. Seems like I should just get an MFE straight out of college (assuming I fail to land a good and relevant job). I wish I could just get an interview for the position I want at my company, but I guess I'll prob need a referral. Whatever, I'll get there eventually.