Best advice for getting accepted into a top program?

[ItsMathematical]

For those of you that have been accepted into a top 10 MFE program, what advice would you give to others applying? What are things we can do RIGHT NOW to add to our resumes, give us an edge in applying?

Currently i'm studying for the GRE - aiming for a 330.
Taking an algo trading course - Learning MQL4, learning about trading and machine learning, adding cert to rec letter.
and teaching myself C++ - Adding that language to my rec letter

Any advice would be much appreciated! Thank you!

 

[IntoDarkness]

gpa>3.8
math+cs
gre quant>=168 verbal>=160
relevant professional experience

 

[ItsMathematical]

Definitely important metrics, i'm more looking for advice on actions I can take right now, to improve my chances.

 

[DavidHilbert]

My answer probably won't make you happy either, but my best advice would be to have a longer term vision than just getting accepted into a top program.

If you are not professionally ready to get a solid job out of MFE (that is either having strong work experience, contacts, having done something truly stellar or being a genius - optimally at least 2 of those), the outcome of the MFE degree (even from a top school) will be quite inferior and you might end up just wasting lot of money for a fancy degree.

You need to think not how to get into a top MFE program, but how are you going to differentiate yourself among another 40-80 students with the same credentials as you have. Why should your dream company hire you from the pool of students who all attend the same brand name school, have the same lectures, know the same things, etc. You need to have some edge. And having good grades, high GRE scores and few fancy looking subjects on your resume is not really an edge.

 

[ItsMathematical]

My answer probably won't make you happy either, but my best advice would be to have a longer term vision than just getting accepted into a top program.

If you are not professionally ready to get a solid job out of MFE (that is either having strong work experience, contacts, having done something truly stellar or being a genius - optimally at least 2 of those), the outcome of the MFE degree (even from a top school) will be quite inferior and you might end up just wasting lot of money for a fancy degree.

You need to think not how to get into a top MFE program, but how are you going to differentiate yourself among another 40-80 students with the same credentials as you have. Why should your dream company hire you from the pool of students who all attend the same brand name school, have the same lectures, know the same things, etc. You need to have some edge. And having good grades, high GRE scores and few fancy looking subjects on your resume is not really an edge.

Insightful, but not entirely useful. The premise is that I even get into a top MFE program. Its a step by step process, and right now my short-term goal is to get into a top program. So assuming I do have those requirements you've listed, how do I increase my chance of getting into a top program. Unfortunately, you haven't actually provided any advice. What is the "edge"?

Thanks.

 

[DavidHilbert]

Insightful, but not entirely useful. The premise is that I even get into a top MFE program. Its a step by step process, and right now my short-term goal is to get into a top program. So assuming I do have those requirements you've listed, how do I increase my chance of getting into a top program. Unfortunately, you haven't actually provided any advice. What is the "edge"?

Thanks.

Let me spell it out for you.

Unless you have some edge, e.g.:
- Strong work experience in the industry
- Contacts who can get you interviews
- Having done something truly stellar no one else has (like winning MS prize for excellence in financial markets in the whole China or similar)
- Being a genius (and by genius I don't mean high GRE and good grades, more like gold medal from international math olympiad)

then the value of a top MFE degree will be well below the amount you will pay for it. If you already have the edge, then you shouldn't really worry much about being accepted. The top programs aim to accept people who they know will have little trouble getting a job and they usually do a good job in identifying them. But honestly, given the nature of your post, I don't think you have the edge now, that's why I gave you my first advice.

If you are still not getting my point, here are a few specific examples based on what you wrote.
Taking an algo trading course and learning about trading - that's cute, but everyone can say that. If you are really so passionate about it, show me your investment portfolio (demo account) over the past few months and how good you are at trading. What algo trading strategies have you implemented? What worked, what didn't? Why? What machine learning techniques did you use? Why did you use these techniques? What results did you get?
You can start with all this little by little. I'd be much more impressed by someone who would tell me he actually implemented basic strategy XYZ and got ABC results because of DEF, than with someone who says he is learning about a super advanced strategy but never wrote a single line of code or put on a single trade.
In other words, show me something tangible. Saying you are learning this and that gives you exactly zero edge over everyone else. And if you just throw couple of buzzwords like C++, algo trading or machine learning into your personal statement, they will see right through it.

 

[ItsMathematical]

Let me spell it out for you.

Unless you have some edge, e.g.:
- Strong work experience in the industry
- Contacts who can get you interviews
- Having done something truly stellar no one else has (like winning MS prize for excellence in financial markets in the whole China or similar)
- Being a genius (and by genius I don't mean high GRE and good grades, more like gold medal from international math olympiad)

then the value of a top MFE degree will be well below the amount you will pay for it. If you already have the edge, then you shouldn't really worry much about being accepted. The top programs aim to accept people who they know will have little trouble getting a job and they usually do a good job in identifying them. But honestly, given the nature of your post, I don't think you have the edge now, that's why I gave you my first advice.

If you are still not getting my point, here are a few specific examples based on what you wrote.
Taking an algo trading course and learning about trading - that's cute, but everyone can say that. If you are really so passionate about it, show me your investment portfolio (demo account) over the past few months and how good you are at trading. What algo trading strategies have you implemented? What worked, what didn't? Why? What machine learning techniques did you use? Why did you use these techniques? What results did you get?
You can start with all this little by little. I'd be much more impressed by someone who would tell me he actually implemented basic strategy XYZ and got ABC results because of DEF, than with someone who says he is learning about a super advanced strategy but never wrote a single line of code or put on a single trade.
In other words, show me something tangible. Saying you are learning this and that gives you exactly zero edge over everyone else. And if you just throw couple of buzzwords like C++, algo trading or machine learning into your personal statement, they will see right through it.

I don't understand how being arrogant or condescending in an environment like this benefits you.

But yes I get you're point. Create tangible examples of what I have to offer and have learned.- something that could have been summarized in one line.

Thanks.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

- Being a genius (and by genius I don't mean high GRE and good grades, more like gold medal from international math olympiad)

Ideally, finding a closed form for Navier Stokes would do it. Just to be sure.

 

[pingu]

I don't understand how being arrogant or condescending in an environment like this benefits you.

It doesn't benefit him/her. It benefits you!

What you see as arrogance, I see as somebody telling you like it is instead of sugar coating it.

 

[bigbadwolf]

What you see as arrogance, I see as somebody telling you like it is instead of sugar coating it.

I once told a girl she had no real chance of getting into her dream school (Harvard). She questioned my mental balance. People don't just want the pill to be sugar coated, they want the pill to be sweet too.

 

[Matt_Dawson]

The best advice would be to actually drop in and sit through some of the classes as an informal student and develop a good rapport with the professor who got some leverage in the decision making and when it comes to admission decision time you have a person to nudge your case a bit which makes a lot of diff.

For those of you that have been accepted into a top 10 MFE program, what advice would you give to others applying? What are things we can do RIGHT NOW to add to our resumes, give us an edge in applying?

Currently i'm studying for the GRE - aiming for a 330.
Taking an algo trading course - Learning MQL4, learning about trading and machine learning, adding cert to rec letter.
and teaching myself C++ - Adding that language to my rec letter

Any advice would be much appreciated! Thank you!

 

[QTMGMT]

If you are a genius or have extensive contacts with the ability to get a job that you are interested in without attending a graduate program, then getting an MFE is a waste of time and money. Some of the people above are exaggerating quite a bit.

Assuming you already have, at a minimum, the average stats of admitted students some easy ways to improve your application are:

1. Build rapport with professors or industry professionals who you will be able to count on to write you strong letters of recommendation and attest to your ability to handle rigorous math coursework and demonstrated interest in the subject matter. (This in my opinion has the best cost-benefit ratio)
2. Find a credible way to demonstrate proficiency in the main disciplines (e.g. certificate in c++ programming rather than just saying you taught yourself).
3. Find a credible way to demonstrate your interest in the subject matter (e.g. do some research and develop some quantitative investment strategies. Write up a paper that explains your findings and backtest results).

 

[qdogg]

Its a step by step process, and right now my short-term goal is to get into a top program.
Thanks.

The (very important) point I think everyone is trying to make to you is that even if you were to manage to get into a "top program," you'll be competing against everyone else from the "top programs" for an extremely tiny number of good quant jobs, and from personal experience as someone who just came out of one of these things a year ago, I can tell you that virtually all that determined whether someone came out of it with a good job or not was the work experience they had on their resume from before they began the program-- it was not just a "step-by-step process" of getting into a program first and then figuring out how to get a good job later.

If you don't have solid work experience on your resume (which I luckily did) or something else that will make you definitively stand out from the 2000 or so other recent MFE grads who will all be applying to the exact same jobs as you) then even if you were to manage to get into one of these things, you'll be throwing away $80k on something that leads you absolutely nowhere... most of my friends ended up thinking the program was a complete ripoff, and it was a "top 10 program."

 

[ItsMathematical]

The (very important) point I think everyone is trying to make to you is that even if you were to manage to get into a "top program," you'll be competing against everyone else from the "top programs" for an extremely tiny number of good quant jobs, and from personal experience as someone who just came out of one of these things a year ago, I can tell you that virtually all that determined whether someone came out of it with a good job or not was the work experience they had on their resume from before they began the program-- it was not just a "step-by-step process" of getting into a program first and then figuring out how to get a good job later.

If you don't have solid work experience on your resume (which I luckily did) or something else that will make you definitively stand out from the 2000 or so other recent MFE grads who will all be applying to the exact same jobs as you) then even if you were to manage to get into one of these things, you'll be throwing away $80k on something that leads you absolutely nowhere... most of my friends ended up thinking the program was a complete ripoff, and it was a "top 10 program."

Again, I think this becomes a separate question of the value of an MFE, which I think is important and helpful but is a different discussion for a different thread.

 

[ItsMathematical]

If you are a genius or have extensive contacts with the ability to get a job that you are interested in without attending a graduate program, then getting an MFE is a waste of time and money. Some of the people above are exaggerating quite a bit.

Assuming you already have, at a minimum, the average stats of admitted students some easy ways to improve your application are:

1. Build rapport with professors or industry professionals who you will be able to count on to write you strong letters of recommendation and attest to your ability to handle rigorous math coursework and demonstrated interest in the subject matter. (This in my opinion has the best cost-benefit ratio)
2. Find a credible way to demonstrate proficiency in the main disciplines (e.g. certificate in c++ programming rather than just saying you taught yourself).
3. Find a credible way to demonstrate your interest in the subject matter (e.g. do some research and develop some quantitative investment strategies. Write up a paper that explains your findings and backtest results).

Thanks, this was the kind of advice I was looking for. Still looking for similar pieces of advice from others!

 

[Philip_Mitterrand]

qdogg,

Can you tell us which program you attended ?
Any by work exp do you mean something directly related to quant or let's say a few years at a No-name firm at corp finance will also give you an advantage ?

The (very important) point I think everyone is trying to make to you is that even if you were to manage to get into a "top program," you'll be competing against everyone else from the "top programs" for an extremely tiny number of good quant jobs, and from personal experience as someone who just came out of one of these things a year ago, I can tell you that virtually all that determined whether someone came out of it with a good job or not was the work experience they had on their resume from before they began the program-- it was not just a "step-by-step process" of getting into a program first and then figuring out how to get a good job later.

If you don't have solid work experience on your resume (which I luckily did) or something else that will make you definitively stand out from the 2000 or so other recent MFE grads who will all be applying to the exact same jobs as you) then even if you were to manage to get into one of these things, you'll be throwing away $80k on something that leads you absolutely nowhere... most of my friends ended up thinking the program was a complete ripoff, and it was a "top 10 program."