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  • Thread starter Thread starter Dean
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Well, I guess that we didn't talk you out of it...

The job market for quants is terrible. The salaries are not too good either. The job market for software engineers is much better.

Wall Street profits are up, but the quant job market has not been effected.

Couldn't agree more. I have noted previously the OP sounds passionate about the job, so the salaries won't be a drawback, but what is a drawback is when you factor in the constant turbulence banking has been in for the last 20 years and, as I said before, NPV it out.

Marketing on this site suggests a world of opportunities for mathematicians (true-ish) and it's a good thing as sites like this helped me avoid dreary jobs such as actuary or accountancy. But underneath it is not a bed of roses. What the OP needs to look at is where is there is investment, not "loads of jobs" - in many sectors job vacancies are on the rise where firms prefer to have lots of short-term contractors (i.e. experienced personnel they don't have to train or supervise), creating an illusion of employment opportunity (e.g. IT in some sectors in the UK).

Trends in quant jobs are rarely understood by non-finance people and, as Ian rightly points out, there is a disparity at the moment between the so-called "bouyant" Wall Street market and reality of hell for quants. Financial firms aren't expanding or hiring inexperienced newbies, but squeezing value out of their existing portfolio to record better profits.

In contrast an example of actual investment is Big Data - not sure I entirely buy into the buzz, but most of the newly employed maths people I know are in this field or biostats.
 
The job market for quants is terrible. The salaries are not too good either. The job market for software engineers is much better. You can make as much working as a software engineer and you don't have to live in or work in Manhattan or Chicago.

It doesn't get discussed on forums like this but the job market of ten years back isn't going to return. And even if it did there are so many quant graduates out there ....

There is an interesting question about how long the world of finance itself is going to last before it implodes -- the divergence between the abstract financial world and the real physical world seems to grow ever larger. But perhaps this is too metaphysical here.
 
It doesn't get discussed on forums like this but the job market of ten years back isn't going to return. And even if it did there are so many quant graduates out there ....

There is an interesting question about how long the world of finance itself is going to last before it implodes -- the divergence between the abstract financial world and the real physical world seems to grow ever larger. But perhaps this is too metaphysical here.

The great thing about the market 10 years ago was that, as a FMaths MSc graduate, I was usually one of 1-3 people that stood a chance of getting any market risk job I applied for. People miss the point, because
the technical prep is required due to the job being frighteningly technical, even for some of the smartest maths guys I know. Back then it was FA to do with "competition" - if there were as many quant mathematicians back then, there would have been real competition.

The last question sounds like something Nasim Taleb has asked in the Black Swan, not the best written book ever, but he clearly makes his point - this is more important than any forecast models or budget projections which usually look stupid when crashes happen. People seem to assume finance is something permanent and Taleb challenges this robustly, making it clear that viewing finance as something permanent and to be revered is almost as stupid as my Dad's view that the cushy, sit-on-your-arse-and-have-a-nice-salary-for-life approach to Irish civil service jobs will remain in place until the Sun goes supernova (or maybe the end of the universe...).
 
Who is OP? What does that mean?
1 finance is not immune from the impact of data mining (big data)
2 software developers can be found in most industries and now gaining serious footing in finance according to some career websites I have seen.
3 you do not need a phd to develop .
4 banks are in regulatory hell and thus probably not the first choice according to a quant net article. They are in regulatory hell according to Taleb lecture on anti-fragility at The NSF or Stanford because there were some who stole a lot of money and got away with it.
5 financial modeling now is requiring simulations, statistical modeling, statistical learning methods, rule based systems as a result of regulatory (expert systems) real-time data processing like used in weather prediction.
6 deep understanding of the data in order to correctly interpret models and make statistical inferences...
7 statistics has a new field called social networks, think about statistically charting human emotional responses like research being done at Stanford cognitive neurosciences with twitter.

As someone with phd, Ms, ms in applied and pure math, nearly another ms in stats, having worked in software prior to grad school and currently in biotech, this is actually a no brainier. Finance is really starting to come into its own as a quantitative industry requiring more specific degree then a phd in quantum gravity to get a job :)
 
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