Career choice or dilemma?

coolintake · 3/7/11

Hi

I'm very happy I came across this website, I think its fantastic! I found so many informative threads and great feedback on this forum.

I'm seeking a career change, and looking for advice.

Here's my story: worked as an economist with the public sector in Canada (econometrics type of work) for a little over 2 yrs (now out of job). I hold MA-Econ-2007 & BSc Math (conctr -stat)-2006 from Canada (with B+/A- avg).

I'm interested in a learning about career options within your industry (commercial banking, IB, hedge..etc) for someone with my qualification.

1- Like you probably guessed, I'm interested in math & econ. Out of you experience do you know of any role(s) in your industry for someone of my qualifications? if so, where/what kind?

2- I'm also considering MFE degree, but I'm little worried (may be a lot) - its 5+ years since I did hardcore math (I feel rusty) and utilized programs like C++ & VB.NET to solve pde's and the like. I know programming hasn't been my forte to start with. How much would do you think it will effect me in the MFE application process? (I'm applying for CAN schools). Anybody in similar shoes?

3- The alternative - MBA?. I personally don't see how it can help (no offense intended for MBA holders). It would be great if you can point out its advantages in your industry and how it can help me (if possible) break in into your industry (what kind of roles, institutions...etc).

I hope I didn't torture you much with this 'essay'

Again, All your help is well appreciated.

Ycohen · 3/7/11

I would just warn you that the Canadian schools are not easy to get into. U of T is probably no easier than a place like Columbia in terms of numbers. York has a program but it gives you a certificate and not a Master's degree, if that's something that would bother you. If you're really gonna go for it you should definitely consider American schools as well in my opinion. Good luck!

Tsotne · 3/7/11

Welcome here! First I think that your math background will help you to rug a path toward the intended career of quant. But as for question:

I know programming hasn't been my forte to start with. How much would do you think it will effect me in the MFE application process?

Some MFE programs require you as a MUST to know C++ for example to get admitted. So it's very necessary especially for MFE programs. As I also read on this forum, one difference between MFE and MBA is that MFE concentrates much on programming while MBA on math subjects.

1- Like you probably guessed, I'm interested in math & econ. Out of you experience do you know of any role(s) in your industry for someone of my qualifications? if so, where/what kind?

There can be some analyst roles to be considered but I cannot be more specific since your profile provided doesn't seem to be exhaustive. I think you have too little experience of 2+ years. Since you worked as an economist (or related job) you should more consider qualitative analyst jobs to fit your experience.

3- The alternative - MBA?. I personally don't see how it can help (no offense intended for MBA holders). It would be great if you can point out its advantages in your industry and how it can help me (if possible) break in into your industry (what kind of roles, institutions...etc).

I would personally go to MBA since it requires less programming focus.
There are more experienced advisors and they'll give more exhaustive answers. BTW, what about your GPA?

Best
Tsotne

coolintake · 3/7/11

Ycohen said:
I would just warn you that the Canadian schools are not easy to get into. U of T is probably no easier than a place like Columbia in terms of numbers. York has a program but it gives you a certificate and not a Master's degree, if that's something that would bother you. If you're really gonna go for it you should definitely consider American schools as well in my opinion. Good luck!

thanks Ycohen, will keep that in mind

coolintake · 3/7/11

Tsotne said:
Welcome here! First I think that your math background will help you to rug a path toward the intended career of quant. But as for question:

Some MFE programs require you as a MUST to know C++ for example to get admitted. So it's very necessary especially for MFE programs. As I also read on this forum, one difference between MFE and MBA is that MFE concentrates much on programming while MBA on math subjects.

There can be some analyst roles to be considered but I cannot be more specific since your profile provided doesn't seem to be exhaustive. I think you have too little experience of 2+ years. Since you worked as an economist (or related job) you should more consider qualitative analyst jobs to fit your experience.

I would personally go to MBA since it requires less programming focus.
There are more experienced advisors and they'll give more exhaustive answers. BTW, what about your GPA?

Best
Tsotne

Thanks Tsotn, I think you got a point. My impression was the same - MFE needs really solid programming, especially C++.

My programming experience I think is limited (C++: numeric methods to est. PDEs and thats about it). Although I did a bit more in Maple: rienmann manifolds, heat equations, sound propagation in drums, queuing thoery...etc. & some VB.NET: MC simulations, fractals, pred-prey models...etc

If I were to learn some C++ (again), are there any courses online /or classes I can take for it? - I live near by Toronto.

As to my GPA: 79% in undergrad & ~73% in grad (got a C+ in econometrics even though my project (A-) was all econometrics). Good enough for grad school (MFE, MBA...etc)?

I good very good references (both academic and pro) and currently working on publishing a paper with my prof in economics.

I'll look into analyst type of jobs and see what's out there. I'll also look into the MBA programs more - in hope of changing my current view (over-priced thing of the 90s)

Cheers

Tsotne · 3/7/11

@coolintake

My impression was the same - MFE needs really solid programming, especially C++.

This is exactly so. C++ is the most important programming language when applying for MFE. Generally the most important and useful ones are undoubtedly C++/C, Matlab, C# and some others like statistical packages S, SAS, R, Minitab and so on but none except C++ is strongly required for MFE programs. I'm saying this from my friends' experience.

If I were to learn some C++ (again), are there any courses online /or classes I can take for it? - I live near by Toronto.

If you need a certification program then to be honest I cannot advice you any because I don't know Canada well and I am not that much aware of online courses. I have learned programming languages at my university so haven't searched for outside programs providing C++ intense learning. Hope you'll find the best courses in Canada. But if the certification is not your concern then it's ok if you learn C++ for yourself, I can advice you many good books in programming languages. I also have been advised here many times and some of them proved to be useful:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Program-7th-Paul-Deitel/dp/0136117260
http://www.amazon.com/C-Mathematicians-Introduction-Students-Professionals/dp/158488584X

Also see the home page of this site where the programming books are presented for quants. They'll help you much.

I'll look into analyst type of jobs and see what's out there. I'll also look into the MBA programs more - in hope of changing my current view (over-priced thing of the 90s)

That was my suggestion and I am still on that point. If you don't want programming to be your main concern then MBA is a better choice. As for the particular programs, other members are more aware of the issue and they'll probably give good recommendations. You can also gain a good knowledge of the environment of quant jobs on this web site:

http://www.quantfinancejobs.com/

Search for jobs by your criteria and you'll get a good awareness of the requirements for this field.

Although I did a bit more in Maple: rienmann manifolds, heat equations, sound propagation in drums, queuing thoery...etc. & some VB.NET: MC simulations, fractals, pred-prey models...etc

This also reinforces my advise about MBA, since your math background will help you keep up with studding. Admission is another point which requires your full profile evaluation.

Good Luck with your career and studding. I hope you reach your aims.

Regards
Tsotne

Andy Nguyen · 3/7/11

Welcome to Quantnet @coolintake
From your previous posts, it sounds like you may be interested in a job as fundamental analyst/researcher in a bank cover a specific sector.
Also, the FED is hiring so look into jobs in federal reserve, SEC, etc. Risk management is also hiring.
If you are interested in any type of "quantitative" job, it often involves programming, modeling, math, data crunching or in some cases, just IT jobs that dressed as quant.

Tsotne · 3/7/11

@coolintake

As to my GPA: 79% in undergrad & ~73% in grad (got a C+ in econometrics even though my project (A-) was all econometrics). Good enough for grad school (MFE, MBA...etc)?

I good very good references (both academic and pro) and currently working on publishing a paper with my prof in economics.

Seems these have been added after my post. Take Andy's advice into consideration. Best

Ycohen · 3/7/11

coolintake said:
If I were to learn some C++ (again), are there any courses online /or classes I can take for it? - I live near by Toronto.

Check out Berkeley. They have an online course. I almost took their course but ended up applying to Columbia which didn't care about programming experience.

coolintake · 3/7/11

Andy Nguyen said:
Welcome to Quantnet @coolintake
From your previous posts, it sounds like you may be interested in a job as fundamental analyst/researcher in a bank cover a specific sector.
Also, the FED is hiring so look into jobs in federal reserve, SEC, etc. Risk management is also hiring.
If you are interested in any type of "quantitative" job, it often involves programming, modeling, math, data crunching or in some cases, just IT jobs that dressed as quant.

Thanks Andy, I'll take your advice and start looking at these jobs, they sounds like they're up my ally. My experience with applications to banking jobs hasn't been fruitful yet (I guess I was applying for jobs I'm not qualified for - a good portion needed certifications like CMA, CFA, CA, XYZ...etc which I don't have). In addition, the largest employer of economist by far is the public sector.

What's your take on/experience if any with MBA?

coolintake · 3/7/11

Ycohen said:
Check out Berkeley. They have an online course. I almost took their course but ended up applying to Columbia which didn't care about programming experience.

Thanks again Ycohen, will have a look.

coolintake · 3/7/11

Tsotne said:
@coolintake

Seems these have been added after my post. Take Andy's advice into consideration. Best

Thanks for the C++ referral material/job bank link...much appreciated.
cheers