Changing careers, where to start?

[MisterJose]

Hey all,

I'm a 32 year-old with a BA in Music. I've been a musician for a while now, but it doesn't pay the bills, so I've been looking into other options. Math has always come easy to me (got perfect 800s on the SAT and GRE math without really studying), I'm a winning amateur poker player, and I like the competitive risk/reward nature of finance and trading. My weakest point is that I tend to be a bit of a luftmensch - someone who's head floats more easily into abstract idea than practical, real-world knowledge (I'm actually lousy with music software programs because I find learning them so tedious and boring). I also love economics, but don't want to and can't afford to be in academia until I'm 40.

So, I'm trying to find the best direction to go in from here. The more I read, the more I'm being convinced that spending a decade on a PhD is not the way to go. The masters in Mathematical Finance has a lot of appeal, but I'm almost certain I'm going to need to get work experience/take some preliminary classes before I have a shot at getting in anywhere decent.

Any suggestions/links would be highly appreciated.

 

[Jose T]

Coming from a similar background (did English Lit undergrad), my first suggestion would be to get some work experience where you are generally dealing with numbers and hopefully doing something analytical and/or with programming. It's easy to think you have an aptitude for math, but working in the type of job you seem to be re-tooling for will involve a level of tedium and boredom at times much more than music software. It would be in your interest to confirm if programming / math stuff is something you would actually enjoy doing (many people do not enjoy it).

If you take my first suggestion, I think the experiences you get will help you decide what kind of degree would be useful to you to enhance your career you want. If you are deadset on going to school now, I would advise you to get a MS in Mathematics, Computer Science or Statistics as opposed to an MFE. You will need to probably do a bunch of prereqs whichever direction you go in, but a 'pure' MS gives you a broader set of exit options and the marginal benefit of having a degree with enhanced status in the investment industry is low considering the current state of upheaval.

 

[MisterJose]

Thanks for the reply. I would indeed like to get some work experience first/while working on prereqs. Any ideas what kind of place might hire me for that kind of thing with only my current qualifications? I do live within commuting distance from Manhattan.

 

[Jose T]

Unfortunately, you will face a challenge convincing employers that you can and want to do quantitative work given your background (unless you've left something pertinent out). I was in the same position some years ago and the only advice I could give you is to network, be flexible and be willing to start at the bottom. Nevertheless, if you are doing work that has a quantitative aspect you will likely be making more money than the typical arts grad type positions.

One area that can be light on educational requirements is programming. Of course, you have to know how to program for that to work. If you have the initiative and discipline to teach yourself one of the languages in demand and can demonstrate your proficiency, that could be a way in.

 

[Ken Abbott]

Unfortunately, you will face a challenge convincing employers that you can and want to do quantitative work given your background (unless you've left something pertinent out). I was in the same position some years ago and the only advice I could give you is to network, be flexible and be willing to start at the bottom. Nevertheless, if you are doing work that has a quantitative aspect you will likely be making more money than the typical arts grad type positions.

This is very true.

That said, I got to know a young woman through my college's alumni program who was also a music major and quite numerate. I recommended her to a few people for interviews and she's been with my firm for almost two years. People, however, are more likely to accept a career foray story when it comes from someone with little experience.

Composition or performance?

 

[inferno]

One other cost-efficient option is to pursue professional degrees such as FRM/CFA.

MS programs cost a lot (and they do not have scholarships; well, except a few partial schols)

To be able to learn that you love the subject truly, you may want to start with something that is light but serious (FRM/CFA).

Ken serves at the Board of GARP (association that created the FRM program). He will be a better person to talk about this.

 

[Jose T]

Personally, I don't think the FRM/CFA is a good idea for OP at this point. He needs some more foundational quantitative knowledge (like 'what is an eigenvalue?') and some practical experience of what it is like to do this kind of work. I don't see having the FRM/CFA stamp (or saying I passed level x) as being very credible if he has no related experience or education.

I could be wrong though, I don't have much experience with FRM/CFA.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

The more I read, the more I'm being convinced that spending a decade on a PhD is not the way to go.

Why not?

A PhD lasts 2-5 years, depending on where you are.

I'm actually lousy with music software programs because I find learning them so tedious and boring

I doubt production software system development is much different, in that sense.
These days, selling luft has gone out of fashion..no slack..so..

 

[inferno]

Personally, I don't think the FRM/CFA is a good idea for OP at this point. He needs some more foundational quantitative knowledge (like 'what is

I totally agree, I think I may not have been very clear!

I said that for someone who wants a career change, he needs to be convinced (200%) that he loves finance / quant stuff and subsequently he would be able to pursue it (in terms of the heavy quant load)...

Spending a whole lot of money on MFE is meaningless unless you already have a strong understanding of undergrad level Linear Algebra, Calculus, Probability Stat and exposure to at least one programming language.

 

[Jose T]

The more I read, the more I'm being convinced that spending a decade on a PhD is not the way to go.

Why not?

A PhD lasts 2-5 years, depending on where you are.

I'm actually lousy with music software programs because I find learning them so tedious and boring

I doubt production software system development is much different, in that sense.
These days, selling luft has gone out of fashion..no slack..so..

I am under the impression that getting a PhD in 2 (or even 3) years is an unlikely scenario in the US. Is that not the case?

 

[bigbadwolf]

I am under the impression that getting a PhD in 2 (or even 3) years is an unlikely scenario in the US. Is that not the case?

Even in the UK, let alone the USA.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Even in the UK, let alone the USA.

My data might be outdated, but there was a time if you got a new result it was enough for a PhD (no coursework, which is something you fill in yourself).

Maths is kind of special in that respect I suppose.

 

[Jose T]

My data might be outdated, but there was a time if you got a new result it was enough for a PhD (no coursework, which is something you fill in yourself).

Maths is kind of special in that respect I suppose.

I don't think this is true of the current generation of Math PhDs either. The ones I know do take coursework and consider themselves lucky if they are done in 4 years.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I don't think this is true of the current generation of Math PhDs either. The ones I know do take coursework and consider themselves lucky if they are done in 4 years.

Wow!
4 years is too long IMHO. Get into industry ASAP.

 

[bigbadwolf]

I don't think this is true of the current generation of Math PhDs either. The ones I know do take coursework and consider themselves lucky if they are done in 4 years.

In the UK, in theory after earning a first class honors in math or finishing a master's, one can go on to do a PhD in three years. But in a mainstream area it is very difficult. Firstly because British degrees have been getting weaker, and secondly because research frontiers have been advancing. This is why a majority of doctoral students are taking at least four years. At Cambridge there is a stiff Part III after the three years of one's undergrad degree, and for research students there are further courses they can take if they're so inclined.

 

[MisterJose]

This is very true.

Composition or performance?

Piano performance, also a year of composition. Spent hundreds of hours learning Chopin Etudes, but right now I'm wishing I spent it learning Java and SQL instead.

The more I read, the more I'm being convinced that spending a decade on a PhD is not the way to go.

Why not?

A PhD lasts 2-5 years, depending on where you are.

1 year doing prereqs before I can apply. Start that next fall. 2 years for the Masters. 3+ additional years for the PhD. Yes, I'd be accumulating debt and wouldn't see a decent paycheck until I was over 40.

I doubt production software system development is much different, in that sense.
These days, selling luft has gone out of fashion..no slack..so..

Let me suggest some things I do like to do: I like analyzing. I was doing structural analysis of a Bach piece for a piano student the other day, and was thinking, "this is so much fun, I wish I could get paid to do this." That's not exclusive to music - I just like taking info, any info, putting it through the grinder, and seeing what comes out the other end. I love reading statistics and tables of info, more than I like reading text (my family is always sure to get me the newest World Almanac every Christmas).

Yes, boredom and tedium are my enemy, but in contrast, I'm very good in the moment. If there's a crisis and we need to act fast, I'm your guy. I don't panic in those situations, in fact I feel quite at home. I once had a customer service job that involved answering phones and data entry - I was actually happiest when there were 5 calls in the queue and orders flying out of the fax. When it slowed down and I got bored was when the job became torture.

So, numbers, analysis, poker, fast-paced environments...it seems to me there should be someplace in the finance world for someone like me, yes?

 

[Jose T]

I don't mean to sound unkind, but you seem a little naive. Try to find some related numerate and/or programming work and see what happens. If you can afford to take one accounting class or one calculus class part-time, that should also give you a little more insight if more education is for you.

No one can really tell you there is a place for you for sure. The positions are generally competitive and you have an atypical background. However, if you enjoy the work / class, you will naturally understand what kind of things that both you are good at and are valued by employers ('numbers, analysis, poker,fast-paced,etc' is not a sensible description of such things).

Good luck to you.

 

[MisterJose]

I don't mean to sound unkind, but you seem a little naive.

I'm not surprised. More argument that experience before any big decisions seems to be the necessity here.