COMPARE CMU MSCF (Pittsburg) vs. Berkeley MFE

[roastduck]

Hey guys,

Thank you for getting into this post. =)

I have got the admissions from both programs and need to make a decision very soon. CMU offers some scholarship so the tuitions are almost the same. I also like the courses of both programs.

I have been working as an exotic interest quant at a commercial bank for 1 year and would like to pursue a career in quantitative trading, exotic trading, structuring, strategist after a master degree. Although I don't have a phd degree, I am quite ok with maths and C++, just I hope to be closer to the market and talk more to people from the business side. Due to some family reasons, I wish to get an internship and fulltime job in NY area, preferrably with big IBs/funds.

Could anyone share some insights on:
1) which of the two programs is better at placing students into my areas of interest?
2) CMU MSCF has summer internship while the internship period at Berkeley MFE is off-cycle. does that mean a big difference in the interview/intern/fulltime opportunities in my areas of interest?
3) which one helps more in job hunting in terms of previous working experience?
a) go to CMU MSCF with 1.5 yr quant experience
b) go to Berkeley MFE with 2 yr quant experience

Thanks a trillion guys!!!!!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

There was a member with an almost identical dilemma recently
http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/cmu-mscf-vs-berkeley-mfe.6247/

 

[mfegrad]

if you want to be in nyc, your better bet is almost assuredly cmu. both programs are stellar, but i think the proximity to the east coast (and the satellite campus in nyc) helps cmu place in nyc. best of luck with your decision.

 

[roastduck]

if you want to be in nyc, your better bet is almost assuredly cmu. both programs are stellar, but i think the proximity to the east coast (and the satellite campus in nyc) helps cmu place in nyc. best of luck with your decision.

Thanks a lot, mfegrad!
It's just too hard to make a decision, perhaps I'm being too greedy....

 

[roastduck]

There was a member with an almost identical dilemma recently
http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/cmu-mscf-vs-berkeley-mfe.6247/

Thanks very much, Andy! I have read that through.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I would vote for CMU because I know many students in that program. I know the director, admission and career services people of CMU. And I always receive answer for anything I ask about their program, from one source or another.
So I'm somewhat certain that nobody at CMU would intentionally lie or hide anything from me. Usually, I get my info from multiple sources in the program so I can verify the validity of them.
Transparency is something I value highly in a good program.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

By the way, did anyone know that we host online chats with CMU MSCF program (along with Baruch MFE, NYU-Poly)
You can look at the chat transcripts to glance more info on the program
http://www.quantnet.com/live/

 

[roastduck]

By the way, did anyone know that we host online chats with CMU MSCF program (along with Baruch MFE, NYU-Poly)
You can look at the chat transcripts to glance more info on the program
http://www.quantnet.com/live/

Ya, I found that too before my interview, it's really helpful~

 

[roastduck]

I would vote for CMU because I know many students in that program. I know the director, admission and career services people of CMU. And I always receive answer for anything I ask about their program, from one source or another.
So I'm somewhat certain that nobody at CMU would intentionally lie or hide anything from me. Usually, I get my info from multiple sources in the program so I can verify the validity of them.
Transparency is something I value highly in a good program.

Hi Andy,
I read in the admission package that CMU has placed more than half of the students in S&T interns this year. However, S&T seems to include a lot of job functions such as sales, trading, structuring, strategist, quant, research etc. Do you happen to have any idea on the general break-down of the 50+% statistics?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I don't have that breakdown. The internship front seems to be very good this year, according to people studying in CMU NYC.
They have banks coming to their building to interview for the first round. The second round is at the banks' office.
Students with no experience get put into analyst rotational program where they rotate between several groups during the summer. A lot of CMU students got into this rotation program this year.
This may be what they refer to as S&T interns. The analyst rotational program usually is run by banks to feed undergraduate students and those without experience into their training program.

Usually, MFE students do not end up in a rotational program. They get interviewed directly by a specific group/division.

 

[roni]

I think S&T doesn't include any of the structuring/strategiest/quant positions.... they would mention these explicitly as these positions sound fancier...

 

[Andy Nguyen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_and_trading

 

[roni]

I meant when MFE programs say S&T they don't probably mean structuring/strategies. For instance, UCB and NYU mention strategies/structuring and S&T, no ??

 

[roastduck]

I don't have that breakdown. The internship front seems to be very good this year, according to people studying in CMU NYC.
They have banks coming to their building to interview for the first round. The second round is at the banks' office.
Students with no experience get put into analyst rotational program where they rotate between several groups during the summer. A lot of CMU students got into this rotation program this year.
This may be what they refer to as S&T interns. The analyst rotational program usually is run by banks to feed undergraduate students and those without experience into their training program.

Usually, MFE students do not end up in a rotational program. They get interviewed directly by a specific group/division.

Thanks a lot, Andy!
I think those rotation programs are quite attractive. Personally I have been working as a quant for a while, and would like to try some other job functions in S&T to see what is the best fit for myself. Just wondering whether those banks have similar associate rotation programs for ppl with previous working experience?

Think the internship for Berkeley MFE is towards the end of the year, do big banks have such programs at that time of the year?

Thanks once again!

 

[Joy Pathak]

Just so you know Berkeley places very well in NYC. Their internship for this year was great with average of 8K. http://mfe.berkeley.edu/careers/placement.html It seems like mostly Associate level positions. Berkeley profiles are mostly people with a good amount of experience.

 

[roastduck]

Just so you know Berkeley places very well in NYC. Their internship for this year was great with average of 8K. http://mfe.berkeley.edu/careers/placement.html It seems like mostly Associate level positions. Berkeley profiles are mostly people with a good amount of experience.

Ya, heard it's more quantitative related positions, not sure whether it's true though... CMU has more fresh grads and that might explain the difference, but the means and medians only differ by 300-500 USD.

 

[CharlesT]

Hey guys,

Thank you for getting into this post. =)

I have got the admissions from both programs and need to make a decision very soon. CMU offers some scholarship so the tuitions are almost the same. I also like the courses of both programs.

I have been working as an exotic interest quant at a commercial bank for 1 year and would like to pursue a career in quantitative trading, exotic trading, structuring, strategist after a master degree. Although I don't have a phd degree, I am quite ok with maths and C++, just I hope to be closer to the market and talk more to people from the business side. Due to some family reasons, I wish to get an internship and fulltime job in NY area, preferrably with big IBs/funds.

Could anyone share some insights on:
1) which of the two programs is better at placing students into my areas of interest?
2) CMU MSCF has summer internship while the internship period at Berkeley MFE is off-cycle. does that mean a big difference in the interview/intern/fulltime opportunities in my areas of interest?
3) which one helps more in job hunting in terms of previous working experience?
a) go to CMU MSCF with 1.5 yr quant experience
b) go to Berkeley MFE with 2 yr quant experience

Thanks a trillion guys!!!!!

From UC Berkeley's website, it seems that they have the same or even better placement records. So probably UCB is better because its business school is much better in general. But CMU only has MSCF.

 

[mfegrad]

But CMU only has MSCF.

what does this even mean? it makes no sense as it is currently posed.

 

[CharlesT]

what does this even mean? it makes no sense as it is currently posed.

I just meant the strength of the business school in general.

 

[ruruouni]

Bumping this thread up as I am in a similar situation. I have almost made my decision and from what I found out, it seems like both programs are very good and will provide you with good opportunities after.

I spoke to some people in the field and most of them (as is the general consensus here too) had positive impressions of both Berkeley and the CMU program. My VP while having a positive opinion of the Berkeley program has a very high opinion of the CMU program. He knows people who have graduated from that program and said that they are doing very well and are super smart. The only caveat he mentioned was that the program is known to be extremely demanding and that I should be prepared for that. He is a Post Doctorate in physics and he said even he does not know some of the math taught in the MSCF program and considered going there once upon a time!

When it comes to name recognition Berkeley is a lot more renowned. You mention Berkeley to almost anyone anywhere and they know it. Carnegie Mellon is a more niche school in that regard. However, on speaking to people, almost everyone said that the people who matter would almost most certainly know about the MSCF program. I plan to stay in North America (Canada or the U.S.), Berkeley is better known in Canada but most likely the people who matter know both programs. Haas is a very renowned school, Tepper is not known to the same extent but is up and coming.

Content wise CMU has more maths (Stochastic Calculus 1 and 2) and more computing. Berkeley gives you a quantitative overview of risk, derivative, options and other quant finance topics. I think this is a matter of personal preference as to what one wants to study. From my experience, knowing programming if you are in front or mid office is very helpful. Also the admission and program staffs in both schools are very responsive and appear to be quite passionate about their respective programs.

Placement wise both CMU and Berkeley are very similar. If you want to pick them nits, maybe Berkeley has a very slight edge when it comes to percentage of class placed and starting salaries. However, to be frank both programs give you the knowledge and the tools to get you a good job, how well you take advantage of these opportunities does not depend on the school. I want to come back to Canada, and was initially concerned about CMU's name recognition but on speaking to people that concern was unfounded (and irrelevant)

Anyway that's the information I have gathered in my decision making process. I have almost decided where I am going and will be making a final decision soon. Given the strength of both programs it’s a decision of personal preference and what subject matter you would like to learn while at school.