columbia masters please help?

[vashok]

hey andy and others; you guys have done a great job with this site. lots of information. I should have posted this last year but here it is...

any opinions please?

I wanted to go into quant/equity derivatives trading or structuring initially. But chose the path of going to a very good Masters in Finance program instead for financial reasons among others. I am realizing this quite wont get me there. After so much work, i guaranteed myself a deferral at Columbia for fall.

Masters in Finance &
Masters in Statistics w/ Concentration in Finance

equivalent to an MFE?

I hear it can basically be made into a Math Finance degree . Is there a student from the program that can vouch for this? I also heard they are flexible in letting you take courses from the business school.

I think the cost of the stats program will be worth the brand name in future??

Also, some people I talk to are really impressed with the double masters idea. But others arent quite as impressed and would prefer to see that extra work experience. I would also like to hear some thoughts from those of you who are already working in the field. But 2 years, 2 degrees a specialized education in finance + Stat-Finance should give me an edge?

thanks, any comments appreciated.

 

[bobltrdr]

Vashok -take what im saying with a grain of salt but from the small sample size of people ive spoken to who underwent ma stats at cu, it seems more suited to getting jobs in risk, or consulting than the front office trading positions you seem interested in . i too was interested in stats @ cu b/c of the cost and flexibility of the program but then opted for the MSOR which seems more relevant . what concerned me the most was theoretical nature of the stats program at columbia and its lack of emphasis on applications and programming.


also the general belief on wall st for quant positions is that the finance can be learned on the job if one possesses the requisite technical prowess. i think your second ma in finance consequently might be discounted by potential employers. derivatives desks will for sure prefer experience to the finance degree.


cheers

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I don't remember if I read anything about the Master of Finance program at Columbia University. I know they have several master level programs, the latest being Master of Financial Economics, but no MS in Finance.

I have seen numerous posts along the like of "can i tailor my MSOR/Stats program at Columbia so it's essentially the same as MFE (IEOR dept) or Math Finance (Math dept)".

My reaction is "why?". Columbia has several different programs to cater to different audience. They certainly don't want to dilute their flagship MFE program by giving students in other programs easy access to the MFE-student-only courses.

I'm sure they are aware of these discussion over the years and make sure there are procedures in place. If you look at the discussions under this Columbia forum, you will see MSOR students give advice on which course to take, etc.

The number of students in MFE, MSOR, MAFN, MStat is large and you need permission to take courses outside of your dept.

I'm going to give you an interesting anecdote: within hours of registration opening, the Intro to Math Finance course is full with 150 people signed up. The MAFN students who have not signed up on time will be added to the class on top of that.

That will give you some sense of the level of interest across the spectrum to get into these courses. If you are ok with fighting off with 100+ other students for every course, you will be fine.

The premium cost of a brand name program is only justified when it gives you access to opportunities you would not have elsewhere. It should open more doors for you, specially during the first 2,3 years of the program when you are looking for your first internship and jobs. If they consistently deliver on that front, it's worth it.

There is no point in bragging about a brand name if there are many many unemployed graduates from the program struggling out there.

I'll let the website speaks for itself if you are looking for hard data on the internship and placement stats.

 

[bobltrdr]

I dont really understand what you mean by 'dilute their flagship program' but the classes you speak of for MFE are in the IEOR dept so if you are an OR student or an EMS student, you CAN take any MFE course. Your not going to get assaulted by a campus security guard and tossed out of the class I assure you. I think the only problem the OP has is deciding WHAT to study given all the options available on campus. But given his desire to get into derivatives, I would think he would be better served by the courses in IEOR or equivalents in the MATH dept to ones in STATS or Business school.

cheers

 

[vashok]

hi bobltrdr,

do you know how easy it is to switch programs within Columbia; ie stats to IEOR , etc. Do i need to file a new application or could i talk to the admin to see which program might be the best fit for my interests? When I talked to the stats department, they seemed to be really flexible on what courses I can take. I could also try to waive out of some of the core stats courses since I have taken them in the past ; also used the same books in a couple of instances. I was also interested in taking some of the electives from the business school; ie advanced derivatives, equity derivatives...


I never considered applying to the IEOR program before. I wasnt quite sure how it would be looked at for quant finance jobs. I would think that switching into the MFE program from IEOR or Stats to Math Finance is not exactly possible.

 

[vashok]

Those are some good points Andy.

 

[financeguy]

you cannot just transfer between programs by having conversations with admit, you do need separate applications.. so dont enroll in one program figuring you've gotten in the door and can seamlessly choose what degree you end up with

as for course selection, obviously be careful of enormous courses.. the intro to math finance and intro to fe, as andy said, have huge head counts (like intro to psych or philosophy in undergrad), but the mortgage backed securities product course i took had 6 students in it... you need a written sign off before each semester by an advisor to approve your choice of courses for the coming semester.. this applies to courses within your dept as well as ones you've chosen outside your dept.. this is a formality and as long as you are fulfilling graduation requirements there isnt even a discussion about it if you dont want to have one.. the only depts that have a bit of an application/lottery process for their courses are the business school and sipa, but that applies to all degree programs outside of mba, mia, mpa so no preferential treatment by degree program there.. which is what made the msor attractive to me - that i could pick and choose whatever courses i wanted after taking the 3 required courses. if all you're doing is replicating another degree program thats a bit silly but its a good choice if you want the flexibility to do your own thing, which is what i did and it turned out well for me anyway

now you mention taking those derivatives courses in the business school.. keep in mind whatever program you choose, the b school only lets you take 1 of their courses per semester and not every course is available for cross registration.. so talk to admin and make sure the courses you want will be available to you before you enroll in the program, pay tuition, and then find that you can only take 1 out of 3 b school courses that you really wanted!

 

[bobltrdr]

Vashok ,

financeguy is likely correct. you cannot transfer with only a conversation but would need to resubmit an app to your desired school within the university.

instead of reliving the application saga , you should probably take advantage of your stats admit just making sure you customize your curriculum to suit your interests in derivatives. Or you can become an expert in something like bayesian inference, an area that will likely impress certain trading groups much more than the finite difference/ito lemma type math you would learn in MFE. in the end, you are in columbia and I find it very hard to believe that the stats dept is not solid.

 

[vashok]

thanks for the advice, guys.. i will contact the department tomorrow to see how flexible they really are in letting you take the courses you are interested in.

 

[William]

Has anyone heard back from Columbia or knows of anyone who has heard back?

 

[Paul Mithouard]

@vashok I strongly believe that you have to go to a master which you will be happy in and where you are sure to suceed You definetely should make your decision according to your preferences and how much you like quantitative reasoning. A part of your choice should also depond on your undergraduate background

@William :As for Columbia, i applied to the MAFN program. I have received a Mail from the director of the program saying that I have been recommended for admission and that the dean is has to validate my admission. I am not sure about the meaning of this email but I definitely hope that i will be given ad!

Hope this helps

Paul

 

[coolharvard]

That means unless something drastic happens, you are admitted... the validation from the Dean is just formatliy... this is pretty much the practice in every school....