Columbia MFE QR Trajectory

[flamingllama]

Admitted next year for MFE. Currently at an Ivy studying Math+Stats, summer internship doing sell-side rates vol trading. I want to end up in QR and was curious what the coursework (concentrations, in particular that Columbia MFE has) which would set me up for a full time or intern research position?
What are Columbia's prospects for QR in general?

 

[MikeLawrence]

Columbia's prospects are pretty good. And with your Ivy League undergrad you will land many interviews. Big class though, so not everyone lands the desired positions. Great brand, just very expensive.

I've no experience with Columbia MFE's coursework, so I won't speak to what courses to take. Read the reviews and see if any courses stick out, usually some are lauded and some are painted black.

Ask the admissions office if you can speak to some current students, they'll probably find some and then pass the information along. Also, reach out to current students on QN or linkedIn who got in last year. Check the tracker, and if they're still somewhat active then send them a DM.

 

[weab]

MFE not needed

 

[redoctober]

MFE not needed

Somewhat agreed, I feel MFEs are honestly mostly for those with not as strong undergrads (either in reputation or major) or international students trying to make the process easier to find jobs in the US.

If you do feel like you're not able to get the role you want when finishing your undergrad, a more traditional Masters in Math/Stats at a strong school might give you a better ROI and build more knowledge depth than a 1 year MFE can give you. You do lose out on the specialized career services though. MFEs only make a small portion of the hiring pipeline for QR after all.

 

[flamingllama]

Somewhat agreed, I feel MFEs are honestly mostly for those with not as strong undergrads (either in reputation or major) or international students trying to make the process easier to find jobs in the US.

If you do feel like you're not able to get the role you want when finishing your undergrad, a more traditional Masters in Math/Stats at a strong school might give you a better ROI and build more knowledge depth than a 1 year MFE can give you. You do lose out on the specialized career services though. MFEs only make a small portion of the hiring pipeline for QR after all.

Most, if not all QR positions require graduate degrees, hence why I’m getting an MFE.
Re the Math/Stat Masters vs. an MFE, I’m currently at Columbia and have Applied Math and Stat major which only has like 1-2 classes different compared to the Masters, which is why I want the MFE.

 

[MikeLawrence]

Most, if not all QR positions require graduate degrees, hence why I’m getting an MFE.

Yeah, I know a guy from Rice who was recently hired as a trader for SIG. He went for trading roles mostly because Research roles required graduate education and he didn't want to do a masters. It's a fair move.

I’m currently at Columbia

Why are you asking us? You should be able to find people on campus who have better info than most of us do. Although they may be biased, that would be a fair reason to reach out to others.

Will you be applying anywhere else? I'd consider Princeton as well; Baruch too, but that's really not your profile so I'm not sure you'll consider it. Given your profile, if you actually know your stuff, you'll be at the top end of the salary range at any school you go to, so the choice actually matters less.

 

[WSBquant]

With that combo, I think your maths is better than many MFE grads lol. Should focus on some fin/programming electives and should be able to land a decent QR role.

Else Columbia MFE computational finance conc looks good

 

[ajjjw]

.

 

[flamingllama]

Yeah, I know a guy from Rice who was recently hired as a trader for SIG. He went for trading roles mostly because Research roles required graduate education and he didn't want to do a masters. It's a fair move.

Why are you asking us? You should be able to find people on campus who have better info than most of us do. Although they may be biased, that would be a fair reason to reach out to others.

Will you be applying anywhere else? I'd consider Princeton as well; Baruch too, but that's really not your profile so I'm not sure you'll consider it. Given your profile, if you actually know your stuff, you'll be at the top end of the salary range at any school you go to, so the choice actually matters less.

I guess my question is more: will I be able to get past resume screens for QR at a hedge fund with a Columbia MFE curriculum and my previous background? And which concentration will help me succeed most?
This is something which I can’t really ask someone at Columbia since it’s more from the side of the firms recruiting and what they’re looking for

 

[MikeLawrence]

I guess my question is more: will I be able to get past resume screens for QR at a hedge fund with a Columbia MFE curriculum and my previous background? And which concentration will help me succeed most?
This is something which I can’t really ask someone at Columbia since it’s more from the side of the firms recruiting and what they’re looking for

While I'm not the most qualified person to ask, my knee jerk answer is "You better."

I'm at Baylor University, I've heard our math/stats department branded by classmates and one professor as the worst among the well known colleges in Texas. I got past a dozen or so hedge fund/prop shop resume screens. I either didn't move forward or was cut in the next round, but I still got past the resume screen (Knowing I was required to code in Python would've helped for 5 of them, I won't lie). Did you not tested this in the last admissions cycle? Have you not sent your resume in for quant finance positions before?

No idea on what concentration to take. I'd check the offerings and compare to what skills I've been told to prepare, but I've got too much else on my plate right now. These are still better questions to ask Columbia students; but yeah, you should be good.

 

[QuantCoach]

From the perspective of top buy side recruiting, if you can get past the resume screens for QR at a hedge fund without Columbia MFE, then you can get past the resume screens with Columbia MFE. Likewise, if you can't get past the resume screens without Columbia MFE, then you most likely won't get past the resume screens with Columbia MFE unless you did something substantial during the program (like getting a top internship placement). There's not a single MFE program that has enough brand name by itself to impress any top buyside recruitor. Why would we care about your MFE brandname when we have plenty of HYPSM undergrad and PhDs to recruit from which are all objectively harder to get in. It doesn't help but also doesn't necessarily harm your profile. Now what's so much more important than the brandname is what you accomplish during the time of your MFE. I think the main benefit of MFE is it gives you an extension in the sense that you have an extra 1-2 years to prepare for a full time job: you can get the best grades in your program, publish impactful papers with professors, more time to interview prep, land top internships, can get F1-OPT status, etc. The difference in curriculum and brand name between Columbia vs MIT vs CMU vs Princeton vs Berkeley vs etc. should be the least of your concerns as at least in my firm, we really don't care about that (and wouldn't even know about the differences in the programs); degree matters more than the exact curriculum (they're all similiar enough anyways).

This would be a hypothetical example of how I would do a resume screen on an undergraduate profile: 1) look at undergrad school: if they're from MIT for example, it gives us a signal because that means at the bare minimum they passed MIT's selection process, 2) look at degree: if they're a cs + math major for example, I like it not entirely because of how applicable it is to the job but because it's typically quite challenging and competitive 3) glance at GPA: if they're 5.0 then this gives me a signal that they're probably hardworking and at least academically smart, 4) look at past internships: if they interned at a competitor then that gives us a signal that they at least passed another firm's selection process but did they get a return offer? we don't want to just collect the leftovers. 5) Do they they have any impressive accomplishments? For example, high putnam scores, IMO/IOI, chess GM, etc. are all indicative that they have a winning mentality. The courses they took are barely considered if at all. I am personally A LOT more impressed by someone that doesnt know any C++ but can learn it in 1/10th the time of everyone else if needed vs someone that knows an adequate amount of C++ but has been learning it for a long time. We want smart, competitive people that are always looking to improve and be the best, we don't want people that studied x/y/z. Studying x/y/z is only important if it gives indication that they are smart, competitive people.

 

[flamingllama]

While I'm not the most qualified person to ask, my knee jerk answer is "You better."

I'm at Baylor University, I've heard our math/stats department branded by classmates and one professor as the worst among the well known colleges in Texas. I got past a dozen or so hedge fund/prop shop resume screens. I either didn't move forward or was cut in the next round, but I still got past the resume screen (Knowing I was required to code in Python would've helped for 5 of them, I won't lie). Did you not tested this in the last admissions cycle? Have you not sent your resume in for quant finance positions before?

No idea on what concentration to take. I'd check the offerings and compare to what skills I've been told to prepare, but I've got too much else on my plate right now. These are still better questions to ask Columbia students; but yeah, you should be good.

Again, I ended up with a sell-side quant-ish trading internship so I was able to pass those screens; I tried my hand at applying for prop shops etc. quant trading but didn’t hear back from a single one, likely because other than some research and coursework I don’t have any OUTSTANDING accomplishments like Olympiad or national competitions of that nature.
I was able to get fairly far (ie. final round) for risk management quant at big MM (think Citadel/Millennium) but was unsure if bar is different for QR or if my experience will be similar to QT in the sense that I will only get interviews if I’m ultra-qualified and exceptional

 

[gkinz]

Honestly I don't think any MFE, even Baruch or Princeton, is really going to "boost" your chances at getting into any top hedgefund. MFEs are great to place into sell-side at banks, but these programs very rarely ever land the top QR/QT roles that you seem more interested in.

The only thing that would help for those kind of roles, just from being able to write it on your resume, would be a PhD. I know most people don't want to spend all that time, but an MFE isn't a shortcut degree to get into these kind of roles and if you just have an MFE on your resume there's a lingering question from the firm's perspective if you actually have the ability to do a PhD in pure math, physics, etc.

 

[MikeLawrence]

if you just have an MFE on your resume there's a lingering question from the firm's perspective if you actually have the ability to do a PhD in pure math, physics, etc.

llama has a dual math and stats degree from Columbia, if his/her GPA is decent then no one is going to question his/her math ability.

 

[quantchoices]

Again, I ended up with a sell-side quant-ish trading internship so I was able to pass those screens; I tried my hand at applying for prop shops etc. quant trading but didn’t hear back from a single one, likely because other than some research and coursework I don’t have any OUTSTANDING accomplishments like Olympiad or national competitions of that nature.
I was able to get fairly far (ie. final round) for risk management quant at big MM (think Citadel/Millennium) but was unsure if bar is different for QR or if my experience will be similar to QT in the sense that I will only get interviews if I’m ultra-qualified and exceptional

Hi @gkinz this is interesting. Is there a reason why you opted for QR roles instead of QT? Or vice versa if you are exploring