COMPARE Columbia MFE vs Columbia MAFN

[chrisd]

I am wondering if anyone can tell me about the obvious differences between Columbia's two programs: MS in Financial Engineering in the IEOR dept, and the MA in Financial Math in the Math Dept. In terms of coursework, how do they differ? Relative strengths/weaknesses? Which one would you say gives better prep for a quant career? And finally, how do recruiters view the two degrees?

Thanks.

 

[Yuriy]

Side by Side comparison of the two Columbia programs

 

[Yuriy]

I will check the individual course contents and report later

It might be a good idea to do this kind of comparison of the top N programs.

It is interesting to observe that Baruch has a couple of unique [required] courses not featured among the requirements at Columbia

 

[Vic_Siqiao]

I will check the individual course contents and report later

It might be a good idea to do this kind of comparison of the top N programs.

It is interesting to observe that Baruch has a couple of unique [required] courses not featured among the requirements at Columbia

is Columbia's MFE a one-yr program?

 

[Yuriy]

is Columbia's MFE a one-yr program?

Yes, Columbia's MFE is a one-year program. The other program can also be completed in one year.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

1 year because it's a summer-summer program with no internship in between.

 

[Yuriy]

I have collected course descriptions for the two programs above. But before I post my comparison, maybe we can also compare other programs as well. By "comparison" I mean description of the areas that programs span. For example, both programs have stochastic modeling component, but other components are covered in different depth.

What other programs do you think are interesting to compare? I can only think about CMU, NYU, Chicago, Berkeley, who else?

 

[DailyVaR]

Isn't Derman in the IEOR department? Nuff said.

 

[alain]

Isn't Derman in the IEOR department? Nuff said.

That means absolutely nothing.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Saw a post by someone who claimed that he is a student in the MA program

I completed a course at CU last fall (part-time) offered through the math dept in quantitative finance. I interacted with many students from the MFE and I can speak to item #2 on your list.

The main difference between the MA and the MFE lies in the structure of the each program. The MFE seems more structured and organized. There are many more course offerings per semester in financial engineering, quantitative methods, etc... There are profs in the FE program who have proven track records in research... The MA program seems to offer many fewer classes and the profs are typically adjuncts from industry. IMHO, the MA program was hastily thrown together to make some money.

 

[EricFleming]

Derman is and yes, enough said.

that being said, those with Maths degrees are still marketable, assuming they have some programming ability or the hiring managers like the way they think.

 

[Yuriy]

Side by side comparison:

FM program is 30 credits, FE program is 36 credits.
FE program is 1 year

Similarities:

1. Both programs offer standard introduction to mathematical finance: Black-Scholes, lattice models.
2. Both programs offer stochastic processes courses which include "discrete-time Markov chains, poisson processes, renewal processes" - that some schools don't teach in FE/FM curriculum - among other things.
3. Both programs have statistical component in the form of inference, time series, regression; two courses in each program.

Differences

1. FM program has a separate course on Stochastic Methods in Finance, which I assume is another name for Stochastic Calculus. I do not see a course entirely devoted to Stochastic Calculus in FE program (they teach part of it in Stochastic Processes).
2. FM program requires numerical methods, FE program has it as an elective.
3. FM does not have any programming component, FE has programming as an elective.
4. FM does not have portfolio management, monte carlo simulation, optimization.
5. FM program does not have as many electives as FE program. One useful elective FM has is on Risk.
6. FM does not have Structured Finance, Fixed Income, Credit Derivatives, Foreign Exchange, Implied Volatility Smile and other electives as opposed to FE that has these and many others.

Overall, FE seems to be more practical and applied, where as FM goes deeper into theory and has less financial applications (electives are in categorical data analysis, inference, multilevel models).

 

[alla]

I graduted from the MA program. In terms of the electives - the above comparison is incorrect. 1) There is a good class "Statistical methods infinance" offered, where you can can learn about portfolio management and optimization. And they obviously teach you Monte Carlo simulations there.
2) "Stochastic Methods in Finance" is not another name for "Stochastic Calculus". They are 2 different classes and both are required for the digree. You take the "St. Calculus" first and learn the math behind it. And then in "St. Meth. in Fin." you learn how to use stochastic calculus for pricing and modeling in financial industry.
3) It's useless to compare coursework in my opinion, since you can always take any class for the FE program as elective being the MF student. You can also take up to 1 class per semester in business school. The same about programming - we had many students taking programming classes.
4) One problem with the MF is that it is only 2 semesters vs, FE 3 semesters - you miss an important for your future career summer internship. Although if you're lucky enough to get a good job without an internship on your resume, you end up saving money for tuition and half a year of your time.

You said there is Derman in FE? We have Karatzas there, not bad either.
In general, the major difference is definitely not the coursework, since as Columbia student you can pretty much take any classes from many schools - SIPA, CS, Statistics, Engeneering. It is supposed to be only 1 year - you have only that much time. However if you think about it, you can stretch your program in 3 semesters, take more electives in whatever field you want and these 2 programs will be pretty much the same. And you can even get the internship in summer - employers don't really distinguish which program you're from - MF or FE. The major difference in the kind of people admitted to the program. In FE you will mostly find fresh graduates in their early 20s - it is a full-time only program. In MF there are many working students - all core courses are offered at night and can be taken part - time, they are older and don't remember any math (to be precise there is about 50%-50% mix of school graduates and experienced people).
I heard NYU has the best program of it's kind. (And the difference mostly comes form the career center). Remember, whatever program you choose, much more depends on you personally, rather that the program you're in.

 

[Wilson Chou]

Hi Guys,

I am new to this forum and I do have some questions regarding to MFE programs in the US. I am planning to apply next year as I am a final year student studying at the LSE.

I heard that Columbia has two relatively similar subjects MAFN and MSFE, is it possible to apply to both of them? if yes, does that have an adverse effect on my application?

Wilson

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Columbia has more than two "similar" programs if you count the MSOR program. Since the MFE and MFAN are in different departments, you can apply to both. In the past, people have applied and got accepted into both program.
I'm unsure of whether you can apply to MFE and MSOR at the same time since they are under the same dept but in the past, once you didn't get into the MFE program they will conveniently recommended you to their MSOR program (not vice versa).

 

[Wilson Chou]

Thank you Andy,

I have the thought of applying to both of them because I want to increase my chances to get into schools in NYC. I am afraid the ADcomm would interpret it as me being indecisive about my career path and consequently give them an excuse to reject me.

 

[financeguy]

Apply to both. They are not the same admissions committees since they are in different departments located in different buildings on campus. They will not be aware that your application is in the other department as long as you don't tell them.

Like Andy said, you could be admitted to MSOR or MSEMS through your application to MSFE. MSOR is worth your time and money, MSEMS probably is not (just in case this happens to you).

 

[bluechimp]

Out of curiosity, why would you say MSEMS is probably less worthy than the other programs. Obviously, we're not comparing apples to apples here, and that different career aspirations may lead to applying to different programs.. but I'd be interested if you can give a little bit of color on the quality of MSEMS program (perhaps versus comparable programs like MS&E @ Stanford or Management Science at Duke).

Disclaimer: the author of this post knows 3-4 people who are going to MSEMS @ Columbia next year. They are all engineers with aspirations of switching into general finance or business, not necessarily something as superspecialized as financial engineering.

 

[financeguy]

You know what, I'll retract my statement. The MSEMS is just a bit less flexible, but I'm sure the playing field is level in terms of job placement. For whatever reason, there's a notion that EMS is a lesser degree than OR and FE within the Columbia IEOR community, but it's mostly shared among the undergrads in IEOR, who are generally morons. It could be because at the undergrad level EMS is less prestigious, but that I don't know.

 

[Wilson Chou]

Hi, FinanceGuy,

Regarding your post about "Apply to both, as long as they dont know you are doing that", I just found out on the Columbia's app form, there is this question asking whether I am also applying to any other department... Do you mean I shouldnt tell them that I am doing that?