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Current Reading: How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie

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I was just wondering...I know that the quant profession is a highly technical field, but it seems that for those that truly want it (and I mean truly want it), enough people have the potential to show that they can develop the skills to pay the bills. However, I'm thinking that a lot of difference is made in how approachable a quant is, and how well he can interact with the traders he provides the ultimate lifeline for.

I mean I'm sure there are plenty of disagreements between the strategy (quants) and execution (traders), so maybe this book will give me an edge.

And an edge in getting a very sexy girlfriend hopefully.
 
As I recall, Dale Carnegie himself didn't have many "friends." The title of the book should really be, "How to suck up to people, and then hopefully manipulate them for your own purposes." The "winning of friends" suggests a cynical strategy with ulterior motives. "Friendship" is debased into a commodity; "friends" are there to be used and exploited.

I also loathe the words "networking" and "contacts." Human interaction up for sale; what should be spontaneous becomes calculated and quid pro quo.
 
i guess my problem is more semantic - i am fine with using your contacts to help get an interview, etc, etc. AS LONG AS WE NAME THINGS WHAT THEY ARE.

It's the worst when a person you crossed paths at some point invites you to lunch "to catch up" and 15 minutes into it you realize his real purpose is a job at your company or sth along those lines, i.e. not catching up.

one of the things that i had to adjust to upon my arrival to the US is that the concept of a friend appears to be much more diluted here than it is in Ukraine.

so yes, asking people for help is totally fine by me, but it should be just that. after all, a real friend will offer help without you having to ask for it.
 
I read that book. I think I still have it at home (edition circa 1940s or 1950s). I don't remember getting useful out of it. I enjoyed "The Prince" more....

Machiavelli is honest: that to get to the top of the heap, you have to be unscrupulous and vigilant, and that when you get there, you have to keep your eye open for upstarts (as you once were) trying to usurp your position. Eat or be eaten. The master of realpolitik. Hucksters like Dale Carnegie, on the other hand, are preaching the creed of the back-slapping, fake-smiling salesman, with not an authentic bone in his body, who will do anything to ingratiate himself with his superiors and customers, has no strong opinions about anything, and thinks that to get along you have to go along. This is peculiarly 20th century American (18th and 19th century Americans weren't like this). When you have a whole society of fake-smiling superficially pleasant people whom you can't engage in authentic conversation and who won't be there when you need them, what kind of authentic social interaction can there be? The idea is to callously use other human beings, behind a facade of hypocritical friendliness and concern. This is typical corporate America, from the CEO downwards, and more generally, typifies the fakeness in American society at large.
 
Machiavelli is honest: that to get to the top of the heap, you have to be unscrupulous and vigilant, and that when you get there, you have to keep your eye open for upstarts (as you once were) trying to usurp your position. Eat or be eaten. The master of realpolitik. Hucksters like Dale Carnegie, on the other hand, are preaching the creed of the back-slapping, fake-smiling salesman, with not an authentic bone in his body, who will do anything to ingratiate himself with his superiors and customers, has no strong opinions about anything, and thinks that to get along you have to go along. This is peculiarly 20th century American (18th and 19th century Americans weren't like this). When you have a whole society of fake-smiling superficially pleasant people whom you can't engage in authentic conversation and who won't be there when you need them, what kind of authentic social interaction can there be? The idea is to callously use other human beings, behind a facade of hypocritical friendliness and concern. This is typical corporate America, from the CEO downwards, and more generally, typifies the fakeness in American society at large.

Although I find your opinion amusing because of its strength, I definitely see where you're coming from! However, the message I do get is that all of these smiles have to be genuine, and that this fake-smiling gets you nowhere. According to Carnegie (as I understand him), your smiles have to be real, or your bluff will be called.

Of course, I highly doubt his book applies on dealing with politics, especially foreign policy. I wonder what Machiavelli would say about dealing with Hamas and others that use human shields.
 
Any fans of Robert Greene's work? The Art of Seduction, 48 Laws of Power and 33 Strategies of War.
 
However, the message I do get is that all of these smiles have to be genuine, and that this fake-smiling gets you nowhere. According to Carnegie (as I understand him), your smiles have to be real, or your bluff will be called.

If Carnegie is suggesting this, it's a contradiction. The idea is to make "friends" so that you can influence them; i.e., you have an ulterior motive from the get-go; how then can your smile be "genuine" if you're plotting and scheming about how you can benefit as a consequence?

I like Machiavelli's The Prince. Another I like is Sun Tsu's The Art of War. Yet another, which I've had on my shelf for untold years, is Robert Ringer's Winning Through Intimidation. Ringer classifies people in the business world into three types: Type 1 makes no pretence about intending to grab all your chips; Type 2 talks incessantly about integrity and honesty -- but only as a camouflage to making a grab for your chips; Type 3 actually believes the baloney he spouts about good intentions and honesty, but for one reason or another, he ends up trying to grab your chips as well. Now isn't this candor so much more refreshing and useful than the dishonest, contradictory, and hypocritical bilge spouted by the likes of Dale Carnegie, Norman Vincent Peale, and others of the ilk?
 
A lot of what Sun Tzu says (IIRC) would be flat out illegal in business today though, such as the use of spies (planting a drone in another corporation to see what they're up to and then proceed to undercut them)

As for Ringer:

1) Will never get your chips because you'll fight him for every last one.
2) Will get his bluff called.
3) This is the one I found funny. It seems that *everyone* is trying to kill you in the business world.

And yes, I kind of do see Carnegie's book as something eerily underhanded when approached from this perspective.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Cialdini's book, Influence. It's a good read, and is focused more on marketing/sales techniques.
 
excellent book. all my friends tell me I should read it ;).

in the end it's not about what a whiz you are, or can make people think you are.

but I don't think Wall Street is ready to see that on your resume.

your smiles have to be real, period. it doesn't matter if your bluff will be called.

but rest assured it will, and you probably won't know, if your smiles aren't real.
 
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