Help!! Need to decide for full/part time MFE vs. current IT job in trading software firm

sabany · 9/14/10

Hi Folks,
I have had a kinda convoluted career path. Did my BS (Engineering) in India. Worked in a Fortune top 20 IT company for over 10 years in various roles in various countries/continents - right from low level UNIX programmer to various Presales activities. Basically a lot of Programming (C/C++) plus some leadership work.

Then I moved over to NY in a Trading software company around a year back. Currently I work on their proprietary Trading Order Management Systems.

What quants do seems to be very interesting to me. Maths is the only subject I ever loved. I am strongly thinking of making a career move to a quant-like role.

I guess I can do it in three possible ways.
- Stick on to my current job, read Hull and other books. Try to get into a quant role (MY TAKE - this route will be difficult).
- Do a full time MFE (DIFFICULT for me at this stage of life).
- Do a Part-time MFE, stick on to my current job (probably most logical - But I am already 32+. By the time I finish the course, I will be 34-35!). Hopefully in the middle of the course, I can get a new job as quant. But at age of 33/35, does it make sense?

SECOND question:
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Money is also a factor. I currently make 100-120K + not much bonus. As in the IT sector, bonsues do not grow that rapidly (my take - please correct me if I am wrong), I am hoping that financially it will be a good decision to do a part time MFE as bonuses there will grow much faster (but base salaries might not).

Please advice with your thoughts. Any reply will be appreciated.

-Saba

joel_b · 9/14/10

I don't see how these are even decision points, you've said it yourself 2 of your three options would be very difficult.

Apply for part-time, or do the CQF, which is self-study but generally well regarded and you get a certificate. Honestly at 32, what's the difference between completing at 33 vs 35? Really? If it's what you really want, do it.

TraderJoe · 9/14/10

You can try for Baruch part-time MFE or Columbia part-time MFE or online MFE program. They are the best. You may not have the Math background to be successful as a quant. It is not easy to switch fields.
In IT field you can make $200K salary. After a few years experience, you can try to switch to Goldman Sachs. Then your salary will jump around $400K (yes, even for IT people, this is possible if you have good skills).

Ask your company to start Green Card process. It takes 7-10 years to get the Green Card. The earlier you start the process, the better it is for you.

Andy Nguyen · 9/14/10

sabany said:
What quants do seems to be very interesting to me. Maths is the only subject I ever loved. I am strongly thinking of making a career move to a quant-like role.

What do you think quants do?
"Quant" is not a well-defined career description and over the years a good number of learning the hard way that the "quant" role they get after paying 100K studying isn't one they envisioned.
You have a high chance of landing a job titled as quant-like but doing the same thing even after you get an MFE.

jason mellone · 9/14/10

Sabany,

Have you tried exploring opportunities more aligned with your current goals? Based on your years and possible product knowledge you could get a role somewhere doing more interesting work.

Especially with the years of coding exp.

sabany · 9/15/10

Folks, Thanks for your replies!

Jason - Do you mean something like a Quant Developer ?

TraderJoe - Yes, there are good opportunities in IT field too, but I guess opportunities are better if someone is more specialized with a quantative degree. I feel that IT is further "away from the money" and hence is less rewarding than a quant-like career. AFAIK, there is no P&L in IT. If I do very well as a quant and if I get an opportunity, I could become a quant trader. Also, a long term ambition is to open something like a hedge fund. An additional degree will help probably to get a foot in the door. But thats too far into the future.

Andy - Yes, I understand the "quant" term is ambiguous and has diversified. I am going through "Life of a quant" now. Will read more stuff on the internet and speak to few quants if possible.

Poirot · 9/15/10

My career profile resembles yours a bit and I just started a part-time MFE program. Here is what lead to it.

1. At work, all of the interesting projects were done in the "algorithmic trading space" and I wanted to be a part of it. Unfortunately, I wasn't qualified. I only have a bachelors degree and I needed to further edu-ma-cate myself.

2. I spoke to my manager (who also manages the algo team) about my desire and my plan to take a few MFE classes. He happily agreed to move me to the algo team once I had finished a few classes. This was crucial. I would have thought long and hard if I had to finish the degree and fetch an entry level quant job elsewhere.

3. Even if the move doesn't happen, I haven't put myself in a financial quagmire (I don't have to take loans to pay for the classes).

So, in a nutshell, if you really want to learn the subject, then go for it in whichever capacity (part-time is probably the best option).

If you just wanna make more money, you can safely get a 50% raise by taking a few technical/financial/soft skills classes. However, this will be difficult if you have visa constraints.

Lastly, I, personally, was more worried about being able to handle a full-time job, a wife, a dog and part time classes rather than my age. Although to be honest, my appearance conceals my age (early thirties) quite nicely. I attribute that to jersey water and jinsing.

marina · 9/15/10

Poirot said:
2. I spoke to my manager (who also manages the algo team) about my desire and my plan to take a few MFE classes. He happily agreed to move me to the algo team once I had finished a few classes. This was crucial. I would have thought long and hard if I had to finish the degree and fetch an entry level quant job elsewhere.

3. Even if the move doesn't happen, I haven't put myself in a financial quagmire (I don't have to take loans to pay for the classes).

How many years you need to complete part-time MFE? Your manager agreed to sponsor your MFE?

TraderJoe · 9/15/10

Be careful with your planning. You can do all the studies you want and upgrade your knowledge, but it is important to have good job performance. It will take 10 years to get the Green Card and until then you will have to keep your job. You can keep your head in the clouds so long as both feet are firmly planted on earth. The humble techie who goes home with million $ will be happier than the investment banker who goes home broke.

Poirot · 9/16/10

marina said:
How many years you need to complete part-time MFE? Your manager agreed to sponsor your MFE?

According to my calculation, I can finish it off in about 2 years (including summer classes). The company is paying 25% of the cost, the rest comes out of my pockets.

sabany · 7/19/11

Update: I moved to the Algorithmic Trading Space. I now write Algo trading strategies for both buy side and the sell side in C++. Now, can someone suggest if doing MFE makes any sense given that I might get similar if not worse job post an MFE ?

Also, Will an MBA make more sense ? Maybe one with a quantative focus (like NYU supposedly does) ?

Or, does it make more sense to just develop more knowledge and expertise in the Algo trading space ? Can someone mention about the opportunities that I can pursue in the Algo trading space ?

Thanks!

Andy Nguyen · 7/19/11

MFE is a good degree to help people break in the industry. Once there, it's a race to survive, regardless of the degree.
It would be better if you focus your time and energy on building your contacts, broaden your skills. Go to conference, participate in AT usergroups, etc. That will give you more bangs for your buck than another degree.