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London riots

AndrewChang

Baruch MFE Alum
I am all for the government providing education for people to raise themselves up, but all the government can do it provide the opportunity. This has been a fundamental issue forever now. You can provide the education, but it is up to the parents and individual to take advantage. That is why dirt poor Indian and Chinese kids can excel in the worst environment, but relatively taken care of first world poor fail and fail again. Parenting is the differentiation between success and failure.

But I don't think you understand the level of commitment (at least Chinese parents) put in raising a child. Literally, they will force you to study and learn while others are playing sports. Totally different from any other parenting culture. Chinese parents will never spend any money for enjoyment but since you were 6, you were flooded with books about acing tests.
 
The ever-controversial Pat Buchanan, with his thoughts on the matter.

... This week, it was London’s turn. And when the fires burn out, we shall hear anew the old liberal litany about poverty, despair, inequality and unemployment, the excuses that long ago ceased to persuade.

And David Starkey's interesting analysis on BBC2's Newsnight:

... Starkey said: "What has happened is that a substantial section of the chavs that you wrote about have become black."
 
Yah, the Chinese basically force feed education down their kids throat. Extremem? Maybe, but even really poor living conditions can't stop kids from being educated. It all comes down to parenting. You could have all the free schooling in the world, but if your parents don't emphasize education you are screwed.
 
Just to agree with others - the overwhelming proportion of rioters were young, black males. Any number of news reports during the riots will confirm that. The fact that there were a few white people taking part doesn't change much or make the problem "multi-cultural".

The same people who are responsible for 90% of the crimes in London anyway were just out in one big group committing crimes together, with a few opportunists thrown into the mix. Deportation would be a fine thing if we could still do it.
 
Just to agree with others - the overwhelming proportion of rioters were young, black males. Any number of news reports during the riots will confirm that. The fact that there were a few white people taking part doesn't change much or make the problem "multi-cultural".

The same people who are responsible for 90% of the crimes in London anyway were just out in one big group committing crimes together, with a few opportunists thrown into the mix. Deportation would be a fine thing if we could still do it.

Don't know if you caught the discussion with Starkey on Newsnight. He pointed out that 80% of gun crime in Britain is coming from blacks. If you look at crime across the board in London, 60% is coming from them; there's no category I know of where they account for less than 55%.

The politicians and their media stooges are anxious to brush the race angle under the rug; hence the talk about "poor parenting." Utter bollocks.
 
BBW, shhhhhhhhhh

Stating the obvious is very dangerous sometimes.

My intent is not to incite, provoke, or inflame. But if we can't be honest about what's going on, if we engage in euphemisms like "it was a mix" and "poor parenting was responsible," we're not going to get anywhere.

The stats for the USA -- released by the likes of the FBI -- are roughly along the lines of what you quoted above and with figures for Britain. The numbers are readily available to anyone who wants to know. And since they more or less speak for themselves, the multicultis steer clear of them, don't talk about them.
 
There will be more rioting.

If they try to kick them out of public housing, at the very least there will be rioting. Nor is the threat of such eviction a panacea. The real question is: What do you do with a group of people predisposed to anti-social behavior and who cannot assimilate to the norms of their host society? Like Barny, I think the lot should be repatriated. Not out of vindictiveness or as a punitive measure but simply because the experiment of assimilation and integration has not worked. Offer them some lump sum to ease the move and allow them to resettle comfortably in their homelands. And hopefully, no hard feelings on either side.
 

DominiConnor

Quant Headhunter
There are worse things that the riots BBW forecasts for these evictions. Actually troublemakers are typically not popular in their own communities, so the risk of riots is less than you might think, but...

There needs to be a proper process for this, review by the courts, evidence and monitoring by people less corrupt, racist and generally incompetent than local government in Britain.

The equivalent of Fox watchers in the UK read the Daily Express or Daily Mail, they're not very bright or educated and are all up for this process and skim over details because they are complex and the dimwits don't do complex.

So what do we do about children in these families, vulnerable adults, etc ?
Exactly where do these peple go ?
On the streets ?
Do even Daily Mail Readers think this will reduce crime ?
 
Then the question is, with time spent in both, where would you rather live? US of A or UK?

With the choice you've given me, the USA hands down. England has become unrecognisable from the country I knew as a child. It's more than what I've listed: there's also evisceration of the manufacturing base; growing polarisation between rich and poor; unaffordable housing and transport; the explosive growth of yob culture; and the decline of manners and ethics, even among -- maybe particularly among -- the governing class. Granted, memory is always rose-tinted and nostalgic. Give me a wider choice and I might choose some other place -- like Scandinavia.
 
There are worse things that the riots BBW forecasts for these evictions. Actually troublemakers are typically not popular in their own communities, so the risk of riots is less than you might think, but...

It's an idle threat, empty barking from Cameron and the Tories. They've got enough brains to know even trying to do it will make the riots of last week look like kisses from a broad.
 
Don't get me wrong, what I'm saying is not racist. I have met and know plenty of black people that are completely integrated into society and law abiding. When I say that blacks in London commit most of the crime, I am not in anyway saying that all London blacks are criminals. I'm just saying there needs to be more done with respect to integrating these people into UK society, at the very least.

Really saying - OK, we know poor black men in this borough or that borough are most likely to join gangs and become criminals, so instead let's be ultra-proactive and give them jobs and an education at great expense, even if it is unfair, because the alternative (having a capital full of criminals) is even more expensive for society in the long run. Positive discrimination on steroids, basically.
 
How do you force someone to learn though? That is the core issue. Poverty in and of itself is not an indicator of crime. It is poverty mixed with broken homes or poor parenting. The government can provide the opportunity, but it will always be up to the individual to take that opportunity and run with it.
 
Really saying - OK, we know poor black men in this borough or that borough are most likely to join gangs and become criminals, so instead let's be ultra-proactive and give them jobs and an education at great expense, even if it is unfair, because the alternative (having a capital full of criminals) is even more expensive for society in the long run. Positive discrimination on steroids, basically.

There are some smart, law-abiding, educated, and successful black people. But what if viewed in the large there are differences between different ethnic groups? After all, when we say Hungarian Jews are the smartest people around, we're not accused of being racist, but if we say black people have more problems getting educated we're promptly slapped with that tag. And fear of that tag is so great most engage in circumlocution like "better parenting" and the "challenges of the inner city." We have no problem saying the white underclass has loads of people with sub-par intelligence -- which is the root of the problem; why can't we say the same for the black underclass? And if and when we do, we'll recognise the futility of throwing loads of resources at this problem. What if they're not educable? And hence not assimilable into mainstream society? After all, until recent years, the venues for upward social mobility have been present: free schooling, and almost free university education. It's not been like the USA, where social mobility isn't that great because access to education isn't present. The recognition of what I'm saying has been the reason for the recent utterances of Merkel, Sarkozy, Cameron, and Sarrazin about the "failure of multiculturalism": assimilation and integration are difficult not so much because of differing "cultures" (which is the euphemism customarily employed) but because different groups have differing capacities and predispositions. The only mainstream politician to say this openly has been the German Theo Sarrazin -- and he was promptly tarred and feathered.
 
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