MBA students can't write, employers complain

[Andy Nguyen]

And let's not even start with MFE students

According to an article on WSJ, the average essay scores on the GMAT fell to 4.4 out of 6 in 2010, from 4.7 out of 6 in 2007.
While M.B.A. students' quantitative skills are prized by employers, their writing and presentation skills have been a perennial complaint. Employers and writing coaches say business-school graduates tend to ramble, use pretentious vocabulary or pen too-casual emails.

At employers' urging, many schools are taking steps to try to improve their students' writing. The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania plans to double its communication coursework to 12 classes starting in 2012. Last fall, all first-year students competed in a mandatory writing competition, which asked students to write short pieces in response to prompts. It will become a fixture in the new curriculum.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703409904576174651780110970.html

 

[bigbadwolf]

Employers and writing coaches say business-school graduates tend to ramble, use pretentious vocabulary or pen too-casual emails.

Though I wonder if the employers can write any better. I suspect there's a rose-tinted nostalgia for a mythical past, where business school graduates were articulate and had dexterity with language. I wonder if it's really any worse now than in the past (yes, I've seen the declining scores Andy cites).

 

[Barny]

The problem is it's not MBA specific. It's modern western-education specific. Most people's command of the English language is pretty awful, so much so that when you do use proper English, like using its instead of it's appropriately, people think you're the one who's dumb.

 

[Cjs]

Not to be a pretentious douche but I think you mean "your" not "you're"

 

[Yike Lu]

I don't know, sometimes you just have to face the fact that not everybody is a good writer or a good public speaker or a good... whatever.

There's a reason creative talent is valued.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Not to be a pretentious douche but I think you mean "your" not "you're"

No, his usage is correct: it's "you're."

 

[AWilliams]

No, his usage is correct: it's "you're."

I thought he was joking with that reply.

 

[DominiConnor]

BBW is right that there is considerable rose-tinting, driven by the filtering processes that happened in the bad old days.

My parents were immigrants, and could offer no guidance to me in spelling, and the Christians who 'taught' me at an early age didn't bother with teaching a working class kid grammar when obviously I was going to be digging holes like my dad. Even now that I've been a professional writer, and get to teach people, my grammar is entirely stochastic. I have read lots, training my neural network to observe correlations, and in general I have almost no idea of the formal rules, except when I reverse engineer them from my Markov chains.
My sons at 6 started to receive education in the writing of formal letters, because they go to a highly selective private school, and in the olden days that sort of person was pretty much the only type you'd see in 'professional' jobs, so whatever their native talent, you'd see their class far more common than my class. Simply put, in the old days if you couldn't write well, you'd not get a decent job.
Up until the 1990s one was expected to use handwriting to apply for the majority of graduate level jobs.

Yike seems to be under the bizarre impression that speaking well or writing is in some way creative.
They're not, they are technical skills, some people have mastered them, some have talent, but they are the output medium only.
I'm not even remotely creative, but am a sponge for other people's ideas, which makes me a better public speaker. People who try and think original thoughts whilst speaking in public most often sound like idiots, are awful to listen to, and in extreme cases will develop stutters and other speech impediments.
Also I assume Yike has never met any actors, ever in his life. Trust me they are not creative, indeed I can't easily think of a group of less creative people. Same thing applies, their job is to say other people's words.

Writing ain't creative either. Thinking is creative, writing is just how to share your ideas, if you have any.
Again look at successful writers, whether you measure success by acclaim or money, most have received surprisingly little formal education in writing, indeed it does seem that either people who take English at university are less creative than average grads, or that their studies have somehow sucked the creativity out of them; or both; you choose.

 

[Barny]

Not to be a pretentious douche but I think you mean "your" not "you're"

Case. In. Point.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Case. In. Point.

No. You mean this

 

[Cjs]

andy you need a sarcasm smiley on here. only one person got my joke

 

[pruse]

BBW is right that there is considerable rose-tinting, driven by the filtering processes that happened in the bad old days.

My parents were immigrants, and could offer no guidance to me in spelling, and the Christians who 'taught' me at an early age didn't bother with teaching a working class kid grammar when obviously I was going to be digging holes like my dad. Even now that I've been a professional writer, and get to teach people, my grammar is entirely stochastic. I have read lots, training my neural network to observe correlations, and in general I have almost no idea of the formal rules, except when I reverse engineer them from my Markov chains.
My sons at 6 started to receive education in the writing of formal letters, because they go to a highly selective private school, and in the olden days that sort of person was pretty much the only type you'd see in 'professional' jobs, so whatever their native talent, you'd see their class far more common than my class. Simply put, in the old days if you couldn't write well, you'd not get a decent job.
Up until the 1990s one was expected to use handwriting to apply for the majority of graduate level jobs.

Yike seems to be under the bizarre impression that speaking well or writing is in some way creative.
They're not, they are technical skills, some people have mastered them, some have talent, but they are the output medium only.
I'm not even remotely creative, but am a sponge for other people's ideas, which makes me a better public speaker. People who try and think original thoughts whilst speaking in public most often sound like idiots, are awful to listen to, and in extreme cases will develop stutters and other speech impediments.
Also I assume Yike has never met any actors, ever in his life. Trust me they are not creative, indeed I can't easily think of a group of less creative people. Same thing applies, their job is to say other people's words.

Writing ain't creative either. Thinking is creative, writing is just how to share your ideas, if you have any.
Again look at successful writers, whether you measure success by acclaim or money, most have received surprisingly little formal education in writing, indeed it does seem that either people who take English at university are less creative than average grads, or that their studies have somehow sucked the creativity out of them; or both; you choose.

writing isn't creative because only thinking is. hmm. that makes about as little sense as chewing one's own head off. and I don't see how actors enter the picture out of the blue. but since they were mentioned... actors -- the good ones -- are quite creative and talented people! unfortunately there's a remarkable lack of appreciation for the arts around here.

 

[euroazn]

EDIT: Ok, I finally found a non-satirical one. This person actually wants to get into harvard. Check out his writing skills. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-2013/951121-will-good-enoguh-harvard.html

To quote the last poster,

Harvard won't reject you if you have a passion in aerospace engineering, astrophysics, etc, but they might reject you if you don't learn how to spell "enoguh."

 

[DominiConnor]

I model job hunting as a competitive game, and your allocation of time & money should optimise the chances of getting a good job. Should you give up time and money that you could spend on learning maths, finance or programming to learn to express yourself ?

For most people I think the answer is yes.

The next question is how to buy some ?

If you are not a native speaker then the answer is simple make sure that you choose not to hang out so much with people who speak your language. I particularly commend reading the works of Tom Clancy since he imports 'fact dense' ideas using language that any literate person can understand, doing so with an air of gentle authority.

Finer tuning can be achieved by working for a charity, pick one that suits you.

Possibly the finest free finance education you can get anywhere is asking strangers for money.
At some point, if you are successful you will be making a pitch for people to give you a colossal amount of cash to play with. That's true of Buffet, Wilmott, Taleb and many others.

At that point you don't want it to be the first time...

Fund raising is great because it's lots of little practice rounds. You learn how to judge verbal and non-verbal cues, how to sound trustworthy, and the right kind of confident. You will make stupid mistakes and get direct feedback, but if you don't win that dollar no real harm has been done. You can experiment with different techniques and find what works for you. That personal optimisation is critically important.
After a few sessions you will be good, and you will know that you are good, and that inner confidence forms part of a virtuous circle.

And hey, you get to make the world a slightly better place.