MFE: To do or not to do?

[Rohit Pilot]

Hi, I'm a material engineer student but I didn't do well in it. I did study R & MATLAB but I sucked at it. Currently, I'm pursuing CFA & completed FRM Part 2 exam. I want to learn more about MFE. Consider me as a non-stem student. In my situation as described above, do u think an MFE would be worth it? I know the obvious answer is no as there would be strong candidates against me when I look for a job in the US. What programming languages are req. for MFE career-wise? Are there any MFE program for non-stem students with not so steep learning curve with relatively good job placements for intl. students?

 

[MRoss]

MFE isn't for everyone in two regards:

1. Some students just aren't "cut-out" for the pressure and rigorous coursework
2. It isn't necessarily the best route for many finance jobs

Let's skip to point #2. What jobs in finance interest you?

 

[pingu]

Are there any MFE program for non-stem students with not so steep learning curve with relatively good job placements for intl. students?

NO

 

[Rohit Pilot]

MFE isn't for everyone in two regards:

1. Some students just aren't "cut-out" for the pressure and rigorous coursework
2. It isn't necessarily the best route for many finance jobs

Let's skip to point #2. What jobs in finance interest you?

I'm more interest on the deal side like IB or PE. More about analysing businesses, valuing them, making presentations, etc.

 

[Rohit Pilot]

NO

I wanted to pursue MSF but unfortunately, very few employers hire them. As a way around it, I was considering Master in Quantitative Finance or MFE.

 

[Rohit Pilot]

MFE isn't for everyone in two regards:

1. Some students just aren't "cut-out" for the pressure and rigorous coursework
2. It isn't necessarily the best route for many finance jobs

Let's skip to point #2. What jobs in finance interest you?

May I know which basic programming languages should a finance major (non-MFE) know? SQL? VBA? Any other?

 

[pingu]

I'm more interest on the deal side like IB or PE. More about analysing businesses, valuing them, making presentations, etc.

Don't do MFE, get an MBA

 

[Yike Lu]

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them.

 

[Philip_Mitterrand]

Lot of good answers. But the question is not if you would get in, rather would be able to capitalize on it given an opportunity ?

MFE is tangential to Finance, a more circuitous way, and you would be surrounded by folks who get more pleasure reading Newton's Principia Mathematica than Shakespearean Sonnets. So ask yourself where you stand in that spectrum ?

If you don't enjoy programming, solving equations you will even have a hard time graduating let alone a shot at your dream job. If you are not enjoying & doing well in Materials Sc it's a clear indication that your decisions are clouded by desired outcomes rather than the merit you see yourselves in those roles.

Hi, I'm a material engineer student but I didn't do well in it. I did study R & MATLAB but I sucked at it. Currently, I'm pursuing CFA & completed FRM Part 2 exam. I want to learn more about MFE. Consider me as a non-stem student. In my situation as described above, do u think an MFE would be worth it? I know the obvious answer is no as there would be strong candidates against me when I look for a job in the US. What programming languages are req. for MFE career-wise? Are there any MFE program for non-stem students with not so steep learning curve with relatively good job placements for intl. students?

 

[theta_arch]

I'm more interest on the deal side like IB or PE. More about analysing businesses, valuing them, making presentations, etc.

Sounds like you should do a MBA or Masters in Finance. Do NOT do an MFE if you are interested in doing all that, you will just end up disappointed and drop out and waste time.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I did study R & MATLAB but I sucked at it.

Why?

 

[mhy]

In my situation as described above, do u think an MFE would be worth it?

Depends on what you want to do...

What programming languages are req. for MFE career-wise?

C++, Python, R, MATLAB

Are there any MFE program for non-stem students with not so steep learning curve with relatively good job placements for intl. students?

Absolutely not.

 

[Rohit Pilot]

I did study R & MATLAB but I sucked at it.

Why?

It was part of my Material Engineering curriculum. R was relatively easier but MATLAB was very tough. I did put a lot of effort to understand it though.

 

[Rohit Pilot]

Depends on what you want to do...


C++, Python, R, MATLAB



Absolutely not.

Yeah, I guess the replies pretty much sums it up that I may not be a fit for the MFE program given my lack of programming knowledge. It is doable but the career prospect may not be what I want to pursue in the future. And at the end of the day interest factor matters a lot too. An MBA can be a possible option.

I appreciate you guys help sort out my confusion & guided me in the right direction.

 

[Rohit Pilot]

Sounds like you should do a MBA or Masters in Finance. Do NOT do an MFE if you are interested in doing all that, you will just end up disappointed and drop out and waste time.

Most of the MSF program office I spoke to said that given my age (24) & qualification (passed all levels of CFA, FRM & CAIA), MSF won't add much value. Perhaps a better option for me now is an MBA. And I guess an MFE is not for me as my brain cannot process a lot of technical things, lol.

 

[Rohit Pilot]

Lot of good answers. But the question is not if you would get in, rather would be able to capitalize on it given an opportunity ?

MFE is tangential to Finance, a more circuitous way, and you would be surrounded by folks who get more pleasure reading Newton's Principia Mathematica than Shakespearean Sonnets. So ask yourself where you stand in that spectrum ?

If you don't enjoy programming, solving equations you will even have a hard time graduating let alone a shot at your dream job. If you are not enjoying & doing well in Materials Sc it's a clear indication that your decisions are clouded by desired outcomes rather than the merit you see yourselves in those roles.

Yeah, you rightly pointed out about the study environment I would be in. Material Eng. wasn't for me at all. I truly sucked at it. I was waiting for the time i'm done with the program. I aced my advanced linear algebra, quantum physics classes but never really enjoyed it. It just didn't make me happy at the end of the day. You rightly pointed out that my decision is clouded by my desired outcome rather than merit. Even if I learn programming & do well in it but if I do not like to pursue in my life, I will be repeating my material engineering scenario.

Talking to you guys is has helped me a lot. I thank each n everyone of you to guiding me to the right path.

 

[Parallax]

Yeah, you rightly pointed out about the study environment I would be in. Material Eng. wasn't for me at all. I truly sucked at it. I was waiting for the time i'm done with the program. I aced my advanced linear algebra, quantum physics classes but never really enjoyed it. It just didn't make me happy at the end of the day. You rightly pointed out that my decision is clouded by my desired outcome rather than merit. Even if I learn programming & do well in it but if I do not like to pursue in my life, I will be repeating my material engineering scenario.

Talking to you guys is has helped me a lot. I thank each n everyone of you to guiding me to the right path.

If you already hold the CFA, FRM, and CAIA designations, you are going to get very little return on your investment if you pursue an MBA. First of all, achieving all three of those by age 24 means you have been studying and testing like crazy for the last three years (achieving all of these by 24 is actually somewhat skeptical IMO). Do you want to spend almost all of your 20's in one form of school or another?

An MBA may be, more or less, required for IB, but it certainly isn't for PE. Analysts and managers in PE span the entire gamut when it comes to education; BS/BA only, BS/BA + CFA, BA/BS + CPA, MBA, BS + JD, BS +JD/MBA, etc... it's all over the place (but very very few MFEs).

Take a bit of time to explore what options you have right now. Spending another 50-150k on an MBA probably isn't worth it with respect to knowledge, skills, opportunity costs, and future opportunities/salary.

I have actually begun to notice some firms (buy side) looking down upon candidates who have degree after degree and designation after designation. If they are looking for someone to help make solid investment decisions, personal actions/investment (like being 100k+ in student loan debt) are somewhat indicative of their skillset/judgements. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that after one or two degrees/designations, you get almost 0% return on the investment. That said, you never see diminishing returns on experience and demonstrable skill (which may or may not come from any degree/designation).

 

[Rohit Pilot]

If you already hold the CFA, FRM, and CAIA designations, you are going to get very little return on your investment if you pursue an MBA. First of all, achieving all three of those by age 24 means you have been studying and testing like crazy for the last three years (achieving all of these by 24 is actually somewhat skeptical IMO). Do you want to spend almost all of your 20's in one form of school or another?

An MBA may be, more or less, required for IB, but it certainly isn't for PE. Analysts and managers in PE span the entire gamut when it comes to education; BS/BA only, BS/BA + CFA, BA/BS + CPA, MBA, BS + JD, BS +JD/MBA, etc... it's all over the place (but very very few MFEs).

Take a bit of time to explore what options you have right now. Spending another 50-150k on an MBA probably isn't worth it with respect to knowledge, skills, opportunity costs, and future opportunities/salary.

I have actually begun to notice some firms (buy side) looking down upon candidates who have degree after degree and designation after designation. If they are looking for someone to help make solid investment decisions, personal actions/investment (like being 100k+ in student loan debt) are somewhat indicative of their skillset/judgements. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that after one or two degrees/designations, you get almost 0% return on the investment. That said, you never see diminishing returns on experience and demonstrable skill (which may or may not come from any degree/designation).

I graduated at 21. Following that I just studied my way through completing these credentials as I wanted to change my career focus. I do like studying a lot. I want to work on the deal side (IB or PE) and in order to move up the ladder, I need to get a higher degree be it MSF or MBA. I guess in my case even if MBA won't add much value it does give me access to IB/PE firms in the US post-MBA (I'm an international student). It is true though that I lack on the experience side compared to someone my age and experience is something which is very important in the finance industry but it does give me an advantage to possibly work my way to the buy side.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

It was part of my Material Engineering curriculum. R was relatively easier but MATLAB was very tough. I did put a lot of effort to understand it though.

Matlab is more of a toolkit and the language is quite sophisticated. So R and Matlab don't count in the sense that they do not help develop programming skills and algorithmic thinking.

We are in the 2nd decennium of the 21st century and programing skills are essential.

 

[Parallax]

I want to work on the deal side (IB or PE) and in order to move up the ladder, I need to get a higher degree be it MSF or MBA.

That's my point, you do not need an MSF or MBA to work at an IB or PE. First off, CFA is basically an MSF. You won't gain anything from that. While an MBA may improve your chances to get into IB/PE, it certainly is not needed (it is more needed for IB, but less so for PE).

I'd recommend trying to break into IB/PE for a year or two, and if you aren't successful, then perhaps seek an MBA. At that point though, you'll have to be aiming for a Top 20 MBA program, otherwise it isn't worth it.