COMPARE Oxford MCF VS Oxford MMath Stats VS Imperial Math Fin VS LSE Fin and similar courses

unknown_wizard · 1/9/24

Seeking expert insights to make an informed decision between the following programs:

MFE Programs:

Oxford Masters in Computational Finance (MCF)
Imperial Masters in Mathematics and Finance
LSE Master in Finance
LBS Masters in Finance

Hardcore Stats/Maths Masters:

Oxford Masters in Statistical Science
Imperial Masters in Statistics
LSE Financial Mathematics

My primary concerns:

Employability Beyond Banking:
- While many MFE graduates seem to gravitate towards banking, I'm interested in a broader range of options, including prop firms, hedge funds, and potentially fintech.
- Would a stats/maths master with a strong emphasis on ML and time series analysis offer better overall employability across these diverse sectors?
Curriculum: Practical Skills for Real-World Challenges:
- I'm seeking a curriculum that goes beyond theoretical knowledge and equips me with practical skills directly applicable to quantitative finance roles.
- Key features I'm looking for:
  - Hands-on learning through coding exercises, case studies, and practical applications.
  - Dedicated focus on essential tools like Python and R.
  - Clear demonstrations of how theoretical concepts translate into real-world problem-solving.

Questions for experienced professionals and aspiring quants:

Which program type, MFE or stats/maths, offers the best blend of employability and practical skills for diverse quantitative finance careers?
- Although the listed programs are valuable, I'm open to other options in Europe, Asia, or the US that prioritize employability and practical skills geared towards the Asian financial landscape, with eventual career repatriation in mind. Any recommendations for programs that excel in this aspect?
What general advice can you offer for navigating this decision and maximizing my chances of success in the quantitative finance field?

I'm eager to hear your insights and recommendations to make the most informed choice for my future career path.

ooolivers · 1/14/24

also curious on this. Also, I would like to ask how realistic it is to apply for Msc MCF @Oxford with an undergrad in International Business from Denmark (only maths in terms of corporate finance, microeconomics, macroeconomics, industrial organisation, etc.). However, < top 5% of my cohort.

If necessary, would it be sufficient to study maths in my leisure time, or do I need credit for these subjects as well?

zephyrus · 1/17/24

I think that if you want to focus on practical skills, employability and diverse roles, your best bet would be a CS degree over a Math/Stat one. (Bonus: you can do most if not all math/stat courses as electives if you wish to).

Would love to hear others' opinions on this.

flashz · 1/18/24

Something unrelated, but I wouldn't consider LSE or LBS's programs as MFE programs. Both programs seem way more tailored for traditional finance roles.

Andy Nguyen · 1/19/24

My interest in this discussion is for the UK programs ranking purpose. It seems to be the line between a traditional MFE/Math Fin programs vs Finance programs are not that clear in the UK.
My goal would be to have a similar ranking like we do with the US MFE programs here. But first, I need some filtering of all the programs there in the UK.

zephyrus · 1/19/24

Andy Nguyen said:
My interest in this discussion is for the UK programs ranking purpose. It seems to be the line between a traditional MFE/Math Fin programs vs Finance programs are not that clear in the UK.
My goal would be to have a similar ranking like we do with the US MFE programs here. But first, I need some filtering of all the programs there in the UK.

For ranking of UK programs, could we include Cambridge Math (Part III) as well? Among the world's most rigorous math programs (and it's just 9 month long). Might be too broad though compared to focused MFE curricula.

Andy Nguyen · 1/19/24

I would be curious to see what people think of a list of 10 worthy UK quant programs.

WSBquant · 1/20/24

1. Imperial Math and Finance
2. Oxford MCF
3. Cambridge part III
4. Imperial RMFE
5. UCL MSc computational finance
6. LSE Math Finance

quanthopefully · 1/25/24

1. Imperial MathFin
2. Oxford MCF
3. UCL MCF
4. Imperial RMFE
5. LSE MathFin

Top 5 UK quant specific programs, based on likelihood and quality of quant jobs they place (from my own personal experience and research)

WSBquant · 1/25/24

interesting. @quanthopefully - just curious as I never heard anyone mention about ucl mcf. curious how’s the course, placements or stats apart from the number on risk.net.

quanthopefully · 1/25/24

bonkyquants said:
interesting. @quanthopefully - just curious as I never heard anyone mention about ucl mcf. curious how’s the course, placements or stats apart from the number on risk.net.

It has a summer placement and they have partnership with some fintechs, hedge funds, and banks like HSBC and JPM. I also know that the managing director for eFX at HSBC is a guest lecturer on one of the modules. Imperial MathFin also have similar partnerships. Oxford doesnt but its only 9 months so the summer is free for an internship and of course they have a great name and one of the best research groups in quant finance (oxford man institute).

Thats why I would put these 3 in tier 1 and in that order. Tier 2 would be the ones I suggest above, plus maybe UCL FinMath, Warwick MathFin. They don't have the industry partnerships or a weaker brand name or have a weaker curriculum but could still get you interviews. Tier 3 would be the various programs at Kings, Cass and Birmingham. Decent programs but with a weaker brand name and not known as target schools so wouldn't get you as many top interviews. The mathematical finance programs in general tend to be too weak in programming in my opinion and more focused on sell side derivative pricing.

Note I haven't included any mathematical, statistical or CS/ML based programs, which if taken at any target school, could also be viable for quant interviews.

WSBquant · 1/25/24

quanthopefully said:
It has a summer placement and they have partnership with some fintechs, hedge funds, and banks like HSBC and JPM. I also know that the managing director for eFX at HSBC is a guest lecturer on one of the modules. Imperial MathFin also have similar partnerships. Oxford doesnt but its only 9 months so the summer is free for an internship and of course they have a great name and one of the best research groups in quant finance (oxford man institute).

Thats why I would put these 3 in tier 1 and in that order. Tier 2 would be the ones I suggest above, plus maybe UCL FinMath, Warwick MathFin. They don't have the industry partnerships or a weaker brand name or have a weaker curriculum but could still get you interviews. Tier 3 would be the various programs at Kings, Cass and Birmingham. Decent programs but with a weaker brand name and not known as target schools so wouldn't get you as many top interviews. The mathematical finance programs in general tend to be too weak in programming in my opinion and more focused on sell side derivative pricing.

Note I haven't included any mathematical, statistical or CS/ML based programs, which if taken at any target school, could also be viable for quant interviews.

Thanks for sharing this. But I think UCL doesn’t have good placements and doesn’t imperial RMFE also have the same career services and placements with banks?

quanthopefully · 1/26/24

bonkyquants said:
Thanks for sharing this. But I think UCL doesn’t have good placements and doesn’t imperial RMFE also have the same career services and placements with banks?

As I said its just my opinion from my own research. You can view alumni on LinkedIn yourself but I have seen many who did placements at HSBC and JPM for example.

RMFE does not provide industry placements through the program AFAIK, you need to find one yourself.

pepequantmaster · 2/3/24

ooolivers said:
also curious on this. Also, I would like to ask how realistic it is to apply for Msc MCF @Oxford with an undergrad in International Business from Denmark (only maths in terms of corporate finance, microeconomics, macroeconomics, industrial organisation, etc.). However, < top 5% of my cohort.

If necessary, would it be sufficient to study maths in my leisure time, or do I need credit for these subjects as well?

well CMU MSCF has 18% from a busines/finance background, second biggest in their class profile. 15% from IS/CS background. It’s one of the hardest to enter and best programmes IMO
It’s been historically this way. More finance and business majors seem to be populating the field.

Class Profile - Master of Science in Computational Finance - Carnegie Mellon University

quantitative finance, class profile, quant finance, computational finance, class size, majors, experience, GMAT, GRE, degrees, diversity

www.cmu.edu

pepequantmaster · 2/3/24

I’d think Cambridge Part III, Imperial Mathfin for practical, Oxford MCF for research

Andy Nguyen · 2/3/24

I've seen many mentions of Cambridge Part III when I asked about master quant programs in UK. From what I can see, it's a purely mathematical course which does not provide any quant-related courses.
Is its reputation as a rigorous math course enough of the requirement for their graduates to compete with those from Imperial and the likes?
Anyone care to enlighten me a bit more?

Lukee · 2/3/24

Andy Nguyen said:
I've seen many mentions of Cambridge Part III when I asked about master quant programs in UK. From what I can see, it's a purely mathematical course which does not provide any quant-related courses.
Is its reputation as a rigorous math course enough of the requirement for their graduates to compete with those from Imperial and the likes?
Anyone care to enlighten me a bit more?

From my limited research on it here’s what I know:

There are 3 concentration areas -
1. Pure math
2. Applied math (mostly physics)
3. Mathematical statistics

I’ve seen people on linkedin from the mathematical statistics concentration that work in quant trading/research

The program is short (around 9 months iirc) and the entire time is meant to be spent studying math so it may be difficult to find time to prepare for interviews and network

To my understanding this program is great for those who want to pursue a phd in a quantitative field, but be warned that achieving distinction is incredibly difficult because you are competing against some of the best math students in the world.

Anybody feel free to correct me if I got something wrong.

Quantapplication · 2/3/24

Andy Nguyen said:
I've seen many mentions of Cambridge Part III when I asked about master quant programs in UK. From what I can see, it's a purely mathematical course which does not provide any quant-related courses.
Is its reputation as a rigorous math course enough of the requirement for their graduates to compete with those from Imperial and the likes?
Anyone care to enlighten me a bit more?

I feel UK quant programmes prefer those with very strong mathematical background. In fact, both Imperial MF and Oxford MCF are under math department whereas US MFE programmes are generally under business school or taught jointly by several department so they admit students majoring other subjects as there are many available units that are not too math demanding. In that sense Cambridge part iii provides very rigorous mathematical training and has a formidable reputation in the Europe (I heard even Oxford MCF research group gives preference to part iii students for PhD than their own master students).

In other words, even in the US, quant jobs probably won't refuse math students from schools like Princeton or MIT, as these companies are seeking for smart brains to profit. So part iii is not like a typical MFE programme but students who can succeed in such programme surely prove they qualify for a quant job.

pepequantmaster · 2/3/24

Agree ^^. Curious, why do you think people with non maths backgrounds are usually not a sizeable % in the Imperial MF/Oxford MCF?
Instead, the class profiles in the top MFE/MCF US schools have quite a significant proportion from non-math (eg. finance)

Quantapplication · 2/4/24

pepequantmaster said:
Agree ^^. Curious, why do you think people with non maths backgrounds are usually not a sizeable % in the Imperial MF/Oxford MCF?
Instead, the class profiles in the top MFE/MCF US schools have quite a significant proportion from non-math (eg. finance)

Like I said, I think the primary reason is that US MFE programmes are generally under business school or taught jointly by several department (so students with weak math background can choose units that are not too math demanding) while Oxford MCF and Imperial MF are entirely taught by the math department and their course content is designed for math students.

The second reason might be due to the different undergrad system between UK and US (or more broadly speaking Europe and North America ). US undergrad students have incredible flexibility to choose units across different faculties and could have several majors. Majoring finance/econ/CS does not mean they did not have studied advanced mathematical content. I have seen some US/Canadian students majoring econ got offer from the two UK programmes and their unit choice include all essential math components for quant (analysis, probability, statistics, differential equations, ML...). But for UK students, it seems that i have only seen math/stats/physics (or joint degrees like math and cs or math and econ) students being admitted.

You could find below description from Imperial MF course specification: Degrees in Accounting, Economics, Finance, Business or Management with very little Mathematics content will not meet our entry requirements. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im.../G1U4-MSc-Mathematics-and-Finance-2023-24.pdf; and for Oxford: Applicants should have a background in probability, statistics, ordinary and partial differential equations, linear algebra and analysis. They must demonstrate their aptitude for, and knowledge of, mathematics, particularly in the area of real analysis. MSc in Mathematical and Computational Finance | University of Oxford.